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Western Railroad Discussion > Walking to Sherman


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Date: 11/20/20 07:23
Walking to Sherman
Author: dougd

How would UP employees react to someone leaving the No trespassing gate at Buford and trying to walk  to Sherman?  I know the gate and would not try to drive the maintain road.
  Any body tried that lately? I cant be much more than 3-4 miles , there would be some action before getting to Sherman, would a UP employee have mercy and allow or even assist?

Sherman is one of the famous places in Wyo on UP I have never been to and I would enjoy having a series of pictures with the signage and views there.  With the private property surrounding, this seems like a possibility to get there without sneaking around and hurrying thru some possible trespassing incident.



Date: 11/20/20 07:34
Re: Walking to Sherman
Author: HotWater

Wouldn't that still be trespassing on railroad property?



Date: 11/20/20 07:40
Re: Walking to Sherman
Author: WAF

HotWater Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wouldn't that still be trespassing on railroad
> property?

There are two fences along either side of the right of way. I assume you are walking up the MOW road.. trespassing. On the other side of the fences is rancher property... trespassing. Got the mesage. I'm sure the local sheriff would give you a ride.... to the Albany County jail



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/20/20 07:42 by WAF.



Date: 11/20/20 07:44
Re: Walking to Sherman
Author: HotWater

WAF Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HotWater Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Wouldn't that still be trespassing on railroad
> > property?
>
> There are two fences along either side of the
> right of way. I assume you are walking up the MOW
> road.. trespassing. On the other side of the
> fences is rancher property... trespassing. Got the
> mesage. I'm sure the local sheriff would give you
> a ride.... to the Albany County jail


Unless one of the ranchers shoots you, then you probably wouldn't need the ride to jail!



Date: 11/20/20 08:08
Re: Walking to Sherman
Author: dougd

Are UP employees forbidden to assist someone in a situation like this?  How about waiting at the gate and asking , pleading, for permission or   help getting  there?

do you really know someone who has been shot  at in this area?



Date: 11/20/20 08:08
Re: Walking to Sherman
Author: Lackawanna484

In some places, you don't even need to be trespassing to have a weapon pointed at you.

I was on a highway bridge over ATSF outside Grants NM when an old lady came out of the bushes with a rifle.  Pointed at me. Told me I was trespassing.  Gave me 60 seconds to leave.

I left.  She didn't seem open to a discussion of the finer points of law.



Date: 11/20/20 08:13
Re: Walking to Sherman
Author: HotWater

dougd Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Are UP employees forbidden to assist someone in a
> situation like this?

Probably, yes. Unless you have received written permission from headquarters and singed all the necessary liability releases, then you just might be escorted by a member of management (assuming they have nothing better to do).

  How about waiting at the
> gate and asking , pleading, for permission or 
>  help getting  there?


You have GOT to be kidding!!!!!!


> do you really know someone who has been shot  at
> in this area?

Yes. I have heard of many such cases, from UP personnel in the area.



Date: 11/20/20 10:03
Re: Walking to Sherman
Author: Lackawanna484

I pulled up the BLM map of grazing leases in the area btw Cheyenne and Laramie.

There's a lot of land in there which belongs to the America people. And other land which is truly owned by ranchers, etc.

Posted from Android



Date: 11/20/20 10:15
Re: Walking to Sherman
Author: koloradokid

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I pulled up the BLM map of grazing leases in the
> area btw Cheyenne and Laramie.
>
> There's a lot of land in there which belongs to
> the America people. And other land which is truly
> owned by ranchers, etc.
>
> Posted from Android

And on state maps, a lot of the roads are marked as county roads.  What a quagmire!

Robert



Date: 11/20/20 10:51
Re: Walking to Sherman
Author: TCnR

People interested in Sherman Hill should be checking previous posts on TrainOrders for some info on the area. Consider that Sherman Hill is not the most freindly place during the winter, just the temperature is a problem in most cases. Definitely not the place for a rental car, especially with Colorado license plates.

A little common sense would also show that Wyoming has more rifles than Nikons or Canons, many areas have poaching problems as well as simply bad shooting practices endangering a land owners livestock. MoW crews would also be wary of damage to trackside equipment. Having an adequate off road vehicle also puts a person into the poacher-looking catagory, or at least the weekend target shooter look-a-like.

Having spoken to a Deputy in that area there's lots of residents who call in any sighting of stopped cars on the County roads, probably due to mailbox theft, the 911 operator apparently has some regular callers. Also agree that the roads are mis-markered on some maps, even to the point of obviously not being a road but a driveway. Although I'm biased there's other places in the area for train photos, another reason to check some of the previous posts.



Date: 11/20/20 14:29
Re: Walking to Sherman
Author: RRBaron

TCnR Wrote:
> Definitely not the place for a rental car,
> especially with Colorado license plates.

My pop used to be a traveling "drummer" for his own business in the 1950s. He taught me to always ask for a rental car with a local licence plate, if possible--especially in the South, for obvious reasons. I still do. 



Date: 11/20/20 15:08
Re: Walking to Sherman
Author: WW

To clarify a few things:

First, trespassing is, under most state laws, entering the property of another without permission.  So, walking or driving, entering railroad or ranch property IS trespassing.  Period.  If the landowner chooses to prosecute, you can be charged with trespass.

Second, access to public lands by crossing private lands is not always legal.  This is plenty of case law that supports landowner rights to block access to public lands if there is no historical or granted right-of-way or easement to access those public lands.  

Finally, the best way to get access is to ask the owner's permission.  My family used to own a large ranch.  We prosecuted trespassers, but would often grant permission to people to hunt, etc. on an individual basis IF THEY WOULD JUST ASK US FIRST.  That said, don't assume that you can trespass on railroad property just because a railroad employee says it's OK.  Often, they lack any such authority to do so, unless they are up the food chain aways in management.



Date: 11/20/20 15:32
Re: Walking to Sherman
Author: Copy19

Forbidden fruit...

JB - Omaha



Date: 11/20/20 16:54
Re: Walking to Sherman
Author: PHall

Trespassing is still trespassing no matter how you do it. And the fact that you went out of your way to do it, i.e. walked in instead of driving, shows the law and the court that you had some real intent here.
Don't expect to get a break from the judge or UP on this one.



Date: 11/20/20 18:33
Re: Walking to Sherman
Author: BRAtkinson

Maybe a drone would satisfy the 'need' to take pictures on Sherman hill.



Date: 11/20/20 19:48
Re: Walking to Sherman
Author: PHall

BRAtkinson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Maybe a drone would satisfy the 'need' to take
> pictures on Sherman hill.

Sure, as long as you stay within the FAA rules. Stay within visual range of the operator and fly no higher then 400 feet off the ground.



Date: 11/20/20 19:59
Re: Walking to Sherman
Author: MP683

So I skipped most of the above.

As someone who does run Sherman Hill, I wouldn’t.

There is MOW gang working there fixing stuff so there’s that’s.

It’s windy misrable.

The side roads are MOW and private roadways for the land owners.

Depending on how far you go, the owner of Otterbox via the Old Elk Ranch owns quite a bit and his ranch hands like o kick people off.

There is (or was) a deputy that lives along one of the roads.

With all that said, we almost never see anyone up there. Access is good, cell service is poor and spikes likes to take out tires.

And then there are random snow drifts and no where to turn around.

But, the wind is horrible and cold 364 days a year.

Posted from iPhone



Date: 11/21/20 02:07
Re: Walking to Sherman
Author: mmm1000

Pal with all due respect are you brave or stupid, no trespassing means just that. You get caught inside the fence your trespassing plain and simple. It's a different world since 911. At the very least you could get drug in for several hours of questioning. They catch you on railroad property you don't have a leg to stand on. If by some coincidence some criminal act unrelated to you or your activity occurs while you are there you could have a little explaining to due. I know it's tempting but I don't think it's worth the risk.



Date: 11/21/20 06:51
Re: Walking to Sherman
Author: WAF

Drones make good target shooting from ranchers. They hate them as much as trespassers



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/21/20 06:55 by WAF.



Date: 11/21/20 09:31
Re: Walking to Sherman
Author: MP683

In all reality up there, no one cares. We never see anyone. No real cattle ranching, no guys with shot guns, no nothing.

It’s more of a personal safety issue.

You get hurt, don’t expect help or a cell signal in certain locations.

Closest ambulance is in Cheyenne or Laramie.

It’s not the Wild West up there.

But the ranch hands for Old Elk (if they see you) are not polite.

But no one is going to get shot.

You’ll be asked to leave.

The ROW is the ROW.

That’s just the reality of it.

Better photo angles are east or Sherman proper anyways.



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