Western Railroad Discussion > Avon CO to Challenge TP Reactivation

Not a surprise but cities such as Avon don't want any trains running over TP. This is why I wouldn't get your hope up for trains to run over TP as this may slowly become a real estate deal to sell TP property to developers.

https://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2021/01/18-digest-colorado-town-will-help-fund-legal-challenge-to-tennessee-pass-revival

From what i understand, the town has no standing on this issue.   It should be tossed.  Small town politicos , in my experience, are generally real estate agents, and have suprising little knowledge of the law. 

In my time on the railroad we heard many cases of local governments trying to set speed limits on track or other limits on railroad operation. The federal courts have consistently held local agencies have no jurisdiction over interstate commerce. 

pdt Wrote:
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> From what i understand, the town has no standing
> on this issue.   It should be tossed.  Small
> town politicos , in my experience, are generally
> real estate agents, and have suprising little
> knowledge of the law. 

James Nelson
Thornton, CO
www.flickr.com/mojaveflyer

       True but they can certainly drag things out for years.

dcfbalcoS1 Wrote:
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>        True but they can certainly drag things
> out for years.

The Amtrak VP we were working with developing the Cascades service had a huge pile of files for municipal speed restriction abrogation cases that Amtrak had won.There were enough of them (like, a hand truck full of file boxes) that Amtrak had developed the strategy of showing up with the files at city hall of a recalcitrant city and asking how much of the treasury they were willing to spend on lawyers and court costs before losing. During the process of removing all the municipal restrictions on BN between Blaine and Vancouver WA, that strategy only had to be used in Washington a couple of times and word got around.

TAW

They should talk to the Treasure Coast governments in Florida before agreeing to pay half of the legal fees. They spent 6 million to lose if I remember.

Avon and Vail are not arguing the speed limits for trains, they are arguing operation of any kind.  However, I am skeptical that any train operation will result from this UP/RGP scheme.  Union Pacific, unlike say MRL/Washington Cos. or the Denver Broncos, has no family imperative to "cash out" on the TP line.  UP is simply trying to hang on to the right of way until the day that Colorado or some other entity decides the solution to Vail and down valley traffic problems is a passenger railroad, and at that point, UP will own a right of way, and charge/extort an enormous amount of money for it.

Another anecdote on cities trying to impose speed limits:  In the late 1970's I was a trainman on the Burlington Northern Chicago Division.  The speed limit through Prairie Du Chien, Wisconsin was 40 MPH.  This was due mostly to a sharp curve at the south end of town, but there were also numerous grade crossings.  My CB&Q Chicago and Aurora Divisions timetable from 1962 also shows 40 MPH thru Prairie.  There was a serious fatality grade crossing accident there, and I read a newspaper article that Prairie was unhappy with the railroad, and was immediately cracking down and cutting the speed of trains in half to 20 MPH.  About a week later I read another news article (no internet back then) that said the city had "compromised" with the railroad and now trains would go 30 MPH thru Prairie.  However, I was making regular trips as brakeman between North La Crosse and Savanna Yard during this period, and every trip we had rolled through Prairie at the normal 40 MPH.  I asked a couple of my engineers about this, and they said, "Cities don't have authority over speed limits, that's federal, BN is simply ignoring the edicts from Prairie Du Chien".  BSB 

AaronJ Wrote:

> this may slowly become a real estate deal to sell TP property to developers.

AIUI from the STB filings, much of the land around Tennessee Pass is "protected" land closed to development of anything other than outdoor recreation.

IMHO, the primary alternative to reactivation is for the line to be abandoned and converted to trail use. AFAIK, there is no 'standing' limitation on who can file an "Adverse Abandonment" application. I would advise retaining an attorney that specilizes in railroad law

Richie Kennedy
Lawrence, KS
route56.com

This happened when BN/BNSF announced they would be using Stampede Pass again. Several city's got very upset as did a ton of homeowners who had bought property that backed right up to the tracks. I believe more then a few of them went after restate companies or agents since they had told them the tracks were abandoned and would never be used again.

Don't cities have some say? Like its either Kansas City or St. Louis has a law that forces railroads to have thier tracks elevated though town.

flarails882 Wrote:
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> Don't cities have some say? Like its either Kansas
> City or St. Louis has a law that forces railroads
> to have thier tracks elevated though town.

I guess it would depend on agreemnets already in place with the citys. When Stampede re-opened a bunch of citys were not happy but BN had never abandoned the line. It had been "active" the whole time it sat dormat. I doubt any of the citys had any agreeemnts with NP/BN in place. Proably the same deal on TP.

In the 1960’s the mayor of Waterloo, Iowa wanted to have a magical “button” on his desk he could press to turn signals red on the CGW and stop their trains from entering town when it was morning or evening rush hours.
The CGW main snaked through downtown Waterloo, with the Rock Island diamond thrown in for good measure, and with CGW being on the vanguard of monster length trains it really could cut the town in two for quite some time and it was a PITA.
Needless to say the mayor’s fantasy was laughed down as a non starter.

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I knew that was coming.  Let's be clear--most of Avon is a buch of whiny transplanted yuppies and second-home owners that hate any kind of development other than what benefits them.  I know for a fact that real estate hucksters have been telling them almost since the day the last through trains ran over TP that the line would never see signfiicant service again and that the line was "abandoned."  These whiners got their undies all in bunch some years back when the UP ran a limited number of locals, MOW moves, and car storage trains up the line.  

There are a lot of reasons that I would like to see TP reopen (unlikely as that may be).  One of them would be to give the yuppie whiners in Avon a nice big proverbial slap in the face to remind them that the world doesn't just revlove around them.  The railroad was there first.

I stayed right by the tracks in Avon, no whistles, no crossing area trains would surprise you.   Locals want to keep hunting and recreating on the tracks. 

You can expect all the beautiful people in the Vail valley and beyond will have their panties in a bunch. This is just the opening salvo.

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