Western Railroad Discussion > Thieves raid rail cars for shipped consumer packages

The video is a little unreal or is that surreal.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/thieves-raid-rail-cars-shipped-072045897.html

While theft can occur in non-rail vs rail shipments I'd think this is something railroads need to get a handle on unless they want to see loss of business.
On forums there seems to be exaggeration vs see no evil but this is a see moment.

Bob
From personal experience I have never had a package gone missing but then I order online tops once a month and try to support local businesses.

How can RRs get a handle on it when the local law enforcement cant? This type of theft was shown some months back on a video posted by a person who was at a RR crossing waiting for a train to pass. There were dozens of people on the train breaking into cars as it was moving very slow and people on the ground taking the packages and boxes of goods. It was a planned theft due to those on the ground waiting at a certain spot for it to happen and those on the train knew which containers to open.  So another breaking story for your protected from this ears is semi trailers in some large cities are broken into waiting for a traffic light to change LA being one of them That has been going on for well over 30yrs as knew a truck driver from that era at that time telling me about it.  So this type of thing is nothing new and the new item is smash and grab that's been going on in retail stores in many cities  worse than ever before. WHY? Well since there is no prosecution when they do, depends on how much you steal doing it, many know and are careful about that fact and stay under it.  Cops have there hands tied as they cannot even arrest anyone and get charges to stick.
So hey guy you think its just some small packages they got off of those cars sorry the video shows TVs and other electronic items being handed down to those on the ground while people waiting for the train watched. Blame the courts and blame the justice system for the failure and oh the progressive attitude that people like AOC and the squad have back in DC.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/22 05:20 by BAB.

Forget all your politics,  this has been going on for 100 years.  One of the depression era gangsters when asked why he robbed banks answered " that's where the money is".   When I was in middle school in the 1950s,  classmates used to steal record albums from a store near the school.  Why,  because it was easy to do.  Decades ago the Santa Fe built a fenced 'pen' at Ono,  along Cajon Blvd near San Bernardino with the idea of stopping a train within it and catching thieves.   Didn't last long.   People are doing this stuff,   as well as pilfering from stores where they work and the companies just consider it a cost of doing business.  Nobody really cares.

Here in Chile,  FCAB is experiencing theft of copper anodes from moving trains.  Couple of guys jump on the flat cars and throw anodes off the train.   4x4 pickups on the adjacent dirt road  (one of my chasing roads, btw) scoop them up and are out of there in minutes. And this happens alongside a toll motorway in broad daylight.   Nobody, including the police,  make any effort to stop it.  FCAB's answer is to begin to ship anodes in container 'cages'  which has stopped the theft from such cars.   Not sure how long it will take to equip their entire rolling stock.

MY take:
Theft prevention begins with the railroad.
1)  Clean up the mess, attractive nuisance, 
2)  install CCTV if not there.
3)  hire a private security firm to patrol areas. 
4)  keep trains moving along vulnerable areas
5)  better security on cars
6) attempt to secure areas, make it harder to get in and out, ie fencing

Bob

 

The chair of UPS was asked about break ins to containers on trains. She said they were concerned, and they are working with their rail and law enforcement partners.

Although UPS has also had feeder cars (18 wheelers) stolen, theft is a very small % of 1% of their business.

CNBC Squawk Box

Posted from Android

Kind of hard to forget about the politics when it comes to this type of behavior.  Why do you think Calif retailers are being hit daily by "smash-and grab" thieves?  Easy answer - the states politicians have decriminalized this to a misdemeanor.  In order for these actions to stop, there needs to be consequences, rather than a slap on the wrist. 

Curt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Kind of hard to forget about the politics when it
> comes to this type of behavior.  Why do you think
> Calif retailers are being hit daily by "smash-and
> grab" thieves?  Easy answer - the states
> politicians have decriminalized this to a
> misdemeanor.  In order for these actions to stop,
> there needs to be consequences, rather than a slap
> on the wrist. 

What's the excuse in TX then as the same "smash-and-grab" is ongoing there despite a complete 180 in political ops? Seems the lazy excuse is to blame politics by simply pointing the finger toward those on the other side when in reality it has way more to do with a variety of non-political issues. Tons of lazy finger pointing and hypocrisy in our society rather than dealing with the issue.

https://www.fox7austin.com/news/apd-says-3-suspects-involved-in-barton-creek-mall-smash-and-grab



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/22 08:03 by AaronJ.

Curt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Kind of hard to forget about the politics when it
> comes to this type of behavior.  Why do you think
> Calif retailers are being hit daily by "smash-and
> grab" thieves?  Easy answer - the states
> politicians have decriminalized this to a
> misdemeanor.  

Yep...Prop 47, Prop 57, and AB 109

The American cultural system is breeding angry, unvested, hopeless people that have no respect for a system that doesn't respect them.  As we have all witnessed, even the highest officials in the land have little reverence for the decorum associated with the institutions for which they were elected.  From top to bottom, the United States is in full decline.  Unless we can create a culture that generates hope for its masses, rather than the cynical self interest, that currently permeates our society,  the U.S. will fall into chaos.  We can band aid punish these petty and organized criminals (and we most certainly should) but we need to chase down the root causes of mass lawlessness, and effectively address them (no small task) or the hoards will grow, and familiar honor systems will collapse.  Perhaps good short-term punitive way to end such activity would be to catch who we can.  If they are part of a group operation, they become responsible for all the ones not caught.  If 20 thieves are counted, and two are arrested, they bear an "accessory burden"  count for each criminal that escaped.  "Share the crime, do everyone Elise's time." Make the irresponsible responsible.  We can't punish our way out of this problem.  We have to teach, involve, and impress our way out, by focusing on the smallest of us.  The incentive to be a productive a citizen needs to outweigh any opposite.  No small task, but imperative, none the less.  Best of luck to the intermodals that find themselves stationary in the wrong part of town, or even a lonely desert siding. 

trainjunkie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Curt Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Kind of hard to forget about the politics when
> it
> > comes to this type of behavior.  Why do you
> think
> > Calif retailers are being hit daily by
> "smash-and
> > grab" thieves?  Easy answer - the states
> > politicians have decriminalized this to a
> > misdemeanor.  
>
> Yep...Prop 47, Prop 57, and AB 109

What are the equivalent laws in TX (or whatever state) since it is ongoing there?

Well stated as we have created a culture that doesn't respect the institutions, laws, or even simple facts anymore. Instead much of our society lacks critical thinking skills, understanding of civics, and historical perspective to where they are now susceptible to conspiracy theories by refusing to be fact checked on anything.

g-spotter1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The American cultural system is breeding angry,
> unvested, hopeless people that have no respect for
> a system that doesn't respect them.  As we have
> all witnessed, even the highest officials in the
> land have little reverence for the decorum
> associated with the institutions for which they
> were elected.  From top to bottom, the United
> States is in full decline.  Unless we can create
> a culture that generates hope for its masses,
> rather than the cynical self interest, that
> currently permeates our society,  the U.S. will
> fall into chaos.  We can band aid punish these
> petty and organized criminals (and we most
> certainly should) but we need to chase down the
> root causes of mass lawlessness, and effectively
> address them (no small task) or the hoards will
> grow, and familiar honor systems will collapse. 
> Perhaps good short-term punitive way to end such
> activity would be to catch who we can.  If they
> are part of a group operation, they become
> responsible for all the ones not caught.  If 20
> thieves are counted, and two are arrested, they
> bear an "accessory burden"  count for each
> criminal that escaped.  "Share the crime, do
> everyone Elise's time." Make the irresponsible
> responsible.  We can't punish our way out of this
> problem.  We have to teach, involve, and impress
> our way out, by focusing on the smallest of us. 
> The incentive to be a productive a citizen needs
> to outweigh any opposite.  No small task, but
> imperative, none the less.  Best of luck to the
> intermodals that find themselves stationary in the
> wrong part of town, or even a lonely desert
> siding. 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/22 08:14 by AaronJ.

should have stings there, periodically   of course once apprehended if there is no jail time...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/22 08:37 by dan.

BEFORE any law enforcement agency takes any action around moving trains, they need to be ASSURED that the trains in the area are stopped and will remain stopped.  

the railroad police would be the obvious choice to communicate with any other law enforcement agencies (i.e. city police/sheriffs) they request to assist them.

the time lag from the moment law enforcement is needed to the assurance all trains involved are stopped and will remain stopped could be an issue..........

66







 

AaronJ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Curt Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Kind of hard to forget about the politics when
> it
> > comes to this type of behavior.  Why do you
> think
> > Calif retailers are being hit daily by
> "smash-and
> > grab" thieves?  Easy answer - the states
> > politicians have decriminalized this to a
> > misdemeanor.  In order for these actions to
> stop,
> > there needs to be consequences, rather than a
> slap
> > on the wrist. 
>
> What's the excuse in TX then as the same
> "smash-and-grab" is ongoing there despite a
> complete 180 in political ops? Seems the lazy
> excuse is to blame politics by simply pointing the
> finger toward those on the other side when in
> reality it has way more to do with a variety of
> non-political issues. Tons of lazy finger pointing
> and hypocrisy in our society rather than dealing
> with the issue.
>
> https://www.fox7austin.com/news/apd-says-3-suspect
> s-involved-in-barton-creek-mall-smash-and-grab

Florida also sees smash and grab robberies.  The Gardens Mall in Palm Beach Gardens has had a few, as has Town Center at Boca Raton, both high end malls.  There was even a smash and grab at a very high end handbag shop on Worth Avenue in downtown Palm Beach last week.  Florida has very generous shoot to kill laws, and many people pack some weaponry, it seems.  One jeweler in Stuart had a shoot out with smash and grab robbers. All were poor shots, nobody was hit.

I'm sure the railroads will work on developing reason as to why the theft is not their responsibility.  They can just create a rule that all containers must ingate with a 1/4" cable seal looped around the top of the door locks when thieves will have to reach up to cut it. If the theif does not carry 3' long cutters, the container is safe from theft.  Of course the shipper needs a ladder to apply the seal and the consignee needs a ladder and bolt cutters to remove the seal.

Whatever we think about all the ins and outs, the mess should not have been left there like that. 
Now several news outlets have taken up the story and bad publicity for railroad.

Bob

Railroad appears to be responsible for policing the ROW. What's the current status of the UP's police force in that area? 
 

When the cost to the perpetrator becomes to high the thefts will stop.  If it does not, they will not stop.  And some D A 's are far to soft on non violent crime.

tomstp Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When the cost to the perpetrator becomes to high
> the thefts will stop.  


Unlikely.

portlander Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> tomstp Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > When the cost to the perpetrator becomes to
> high
> > the thefts will stop.  
>
>
> Unlikely.
You mean like white-collar crime?