Western Railroad Discussion > BNSF modifies controversial train crew attendance policy

Here's the latest on BNDF's Hi-Viz policy.

BNSF modifies controversial train crew attendance policy (corrected) - Trains

It’s still hot garbage. I’ve talked to half dozen guys this week that have a exit plan in motion. They need some real and major changes to this system. 

It seems that the BNSF has bent over backwards to turn a really good job into a really bad one. Most of my 35 years were during the better times and I'm now glad I don't work there anymore.

Yep, and I bet it's gonna get a lot worse with both unions pressuring them to do a much better job, thing is find the ones who abuse it compared to the ones who actually use the time off for certain reasons! I'm hoping they get this squared away soon unless a major head on happens and they wonder why it happened!

30/60 is a long way away is you're in your early twenties.

Out

callum_out Wrote:
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> 30/60 is a long way away is you're in your early
> twenties.
>


Nowadays, it's a long way away when you're in your 50s.

TAW

TAW Wrote:
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> callum_out Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > 30/60 is a long way away is you're in your
> early
> > twenties.
> >
>
>
> Nowadays, it's a long way away when you're in your
> 50s.
>
> TAW


Bingo!

Posted from iPhone

Yep…the old attendance policy was too restrictive…and even with the new Hi-Viz update…it’s no good. Over 1,000 people gone system wide now…and considering how many trains an extraboard engineer runs a month…that’s a lot of people that could have been moving freight for the company. This really isn’t working out well. And as mentioned before…many more will be going soon.

Posted from iPhone

They're trying to prevent guys from hitting federally mandate rest (RSIA) by incentivizing workers with extra points.

Gain 1 point for working a holiday, but lose 7 or 10 points (depending on the board you're on) for laying off holidays.

If the company really wanted to get staffing on weekends, holidays, etc they could increase the rate paid.

Double pay on holidays and weekends? Yes, please. Plenty of mission critical firms like hospitals already do that.

Posted from Android

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
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> If the company really wanted to get staffing on
> weekends, holidays, etc they could increase the
> rate paid.
>
> Double pay on holidays and weekends? Yes, please.
> Plenty of mission critical firms like hospitals
> already do that.
>
> Posted from Android


It doesn't quite work that way in the RR biz. Let's continue to make life SO miserable that people won't apply/quit and we can take our "gorilla tears" and PUSH for one man crews/total automation.....

"But, but.....no one will come to work for us"....!!!??!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/22 06:26 by ns1000.

It doesn't work that way in the railroad business because management doesn't want it to happen.

They want people to leave.

Posted from Android

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------
>
> They want people to leave.
>
> Posted from Android

I KNOW that is TRUE.....:</

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
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> If the company really wanted to get staffing on
> weekends, holidays, etc they could increase the
> rate paid.

so, the attendance policy would be tolerable IF there was more money to be made?

> Double pay on holidays and weekends? Yes, please.
> Plenty of mission critical firms like hospitals
> already do that.

i have worked o.t. on holidays for the extra scratch many times but it was not on the railroad.  it was in a profession were i KNEW my schedule and could plan accordingly.

i am not aware of any other industries/critical firms that have anything close to the same unpredictable "on-call" away schedules like the railroads.
 
> Posted from Android

66

Yep, 24/7 365 days a year on the railroad. Not a single dime more for weekends or holidays. Gee, why won't anyone come work for us?
With social media and the internet exposing the poor working environment of class one's, no one is going to show up for their hiring extravaganza's.
The Jennie has come out of the box, and can't be shoved back inside.
 

MILW-E78 Wrote:
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> Yep, 24/7 365 days a year on the railroad. Not a
> single dime more for weekends or holidays. Gee,
> why won't anyone come work for us?
> With social media and the internet exposing the
> poor working environment of class one's, no one is
> going to show up for their hiring extravaganza's.
> The Jennie has come out of the box, and can't be
> shoved back inside.
>  

Many firms are recognizing that employees are making choices about where they want to work, and what they want FROM work.  That's an environment unfamiliar to railroads.  State laws allowing employees to discuss salaries and bonuses without fear of retribution are also making a difference.

One element which regularly comes up in discussions about the railroads is the Railroad Retirement plans. This defined benefit (DB) plan is predicated on working 30 years and attaining age 60. Very few employers offer these DB plans anymore. Many offer some variation on defined contribution (DC) plans. You put in money, the company puts in money, you can take it all with you after five years is a common formula. There's a similar program for retirement health plans. No need to wait until age 60 to retire.. Few young people want the DC plans, waiting a lifetime for a payout.

 

Just making it look like they're trying to make things better...those of us who are still here know better

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
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> One element which regularly comes up in
> discussions about the railroads is the Railroad
> Retirement plans. This defined benefit (DB) plan
> is predicated on working 30 years and attaining
> age 60. Very few employers offer these DB plans
> anymore.

It is not a railroad-offered plan, it's a government plan like Social Security...that predates Social Security.

TAW

"There's a similar program for retirement health plans. No need to wait until age 60 to retire.. Few young people want the DC plans, waiting a lifetime for a payout."

Really?  How is your 401k doing?  Does this include the 69% of Americans with less than $1000 in Savings? How would you like to work these railroad jobs until you are 67 to get full Social Securtiy benefits?   Railroad Retirement is self sustaining.  BTW, Vanguard, the Union Pacific 401k administrator is the largest Union Pacific stock holder.  Nothing like investing in the demise of the stakeholder for the sake of the shareholder.  

sphogger
 

sphogger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "There's a similar program for retirement health
> plans. No need to wait until age 60 to retire..
> Few young people want the DC plans, waiting a
> lifetime for a payout."
>
> Really?  How is your 401k doing?  Does this
> include the 69% of Americans with less than $1000
> in Savings? How would you like to work these
> railroad jobs until you are 67 to get full Social
> Securtiy benefits?   Railroad Retirement is self
> sustaining.  BTW, Vanguard, the Union Pacific
> 401k administrator is the largest Union Pacific
> stock holder.  Nothing like investing in the
> demise of the stakeholder for the sake of the
> shareholder.  
>
> sphogger
>  

My 401k is doing well, thanks for asking.

The defined benefit pension universe is collapsing. Multi-employer teamster and coal worker plans are dying, and on life support. Expecting that the RRB plan will be there in 30 years has about the same credibility as expecting social security will be there in 30 years.  Maybe, but don't count on much. Look at the math.  Fewer and fewer people contributing while more and more people draw from it, and live longer.

My point is something valuable to people now age 50 is considerably less valuable to somebody age 25 or 30. And a DB pension is just not exciting to a younger person.  I would venture that many current railroaders would take their pension and a buyout, if they could, right now, and go on to something else.  Which is exactly what the company wants...