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Date: 09/22/22 20:15
BLET Tentative National Agreement is out
Author: MP555




Date: 09/22/22 20:54
Re: BLET Tentative National Agreement is out
Author: callum_out

There is a lot in there which is basically kick the can down the road, a lot of 180 days to agree or arbitrate. There
is also a lot of nice words as to regular rest and such without much definition and again the 180 days thing. The
agreement is a bit unfinished, it's better in some respects than now but how much better......?

Out 



Date: 09/22/22 20:55
Re: BLET Tentative National Agreement is out
Author: RS11

Does the employee decide how much time he/she needs to take when marking off for a doctor's appointment?  I know there were times I needed to mark off two days prior to make sure I was home to make that appointment.  I can see where an employee wants to mark off on a Monday for an appointment on Wednesday and the carrier denying the mark off as too early.  Also, three times a year seems to be a rather low number especially as one ages.  



Date: 09/22/22 21:09
Re: BLET Tentative National Agreement is out
Author: Railbaron

First, I no longer have a dog in this fight so my opinions don't really matter.

I'm not happy with a lot of vague language. The part about no harassment for laying off medical sounds good but I don't see where that solves the basic "time off" issue for other reasons. I can also see an employee who lays off too often for "medical" could mysteriously end up being held out of service "pending physical". I'm sure they'll also closely monitor employees laying off "medical" around weekends and holidays and the company will find ways to screw with them. I just don't think anything will change unless there is specific agreements involving time off.



Date: 09/22/22 21:24
Re: BLET Tentative National Agreement is out
Author: goneon66

for a male over 50 yrs, this may look familiar:

1. primary care physician: 1 day 

2. urologist: 1 day

3. dermatologist: at least 1 day.

4. dentist: at least 1 day.

5. eye doctor: 1 day

at least 5 days per year IF there are no problems/issues that require a follow-up............

66



 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/22/22 21:25 by goneon66.



Date: 09/22/22 21:37
Re: BLET Tentative National Agreement is out
Author: trainjunkie

goneon66 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> at least 5 days per year IF there are no
> problems/issues that require a
> follow-up............

That's IF you're home the day of the appointment.  My doctor appointments usually involve a 2 to 3 day layoff to insure I'm not called out of town just prior. 



Date: 09/22/22 21:40
Re: BLET Tentative National Agreement is out
Author: goneon66

trainjunkie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> goneon66 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > at least 5 days per year IF there are no
> > problems/issues that require a
> > follow-up............
>
> That's IF you're home the day of the appointment.
>  My doctor appointments usually involve a 2 to 3
> day layoff to insure I'm not called out of town
> just prior. 

exactly.  you may even have to layoff 2 more times to ENSURE you get the yearly blood draws/panels for your primary care physician AND urologist too..........

66



Date: 09/22/22 22:05
Re: BLET Tentative National Agreement is out
Author: justalurker66

RS11 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Does the employee decide how much time he/she needs to take when marking off for a doctor's appointment?

Employees in unassigned service (including extraboards) will be allowed to attend 3 annual routine/preventive medical care visits without being assessed any form of disciplinary points, demerits, or disciplinary citations under any Carriers’ attendance policies.
o Exams must be scheduled at least thirty (30) days in advance and must take place on a Tuesday, Wednesday, or Thursday (excluding holidays)
o Each excused absence includes the necessary time off prior to and/or following the exam (employees are entitled to 3 occurrences per year, not just 3 days)


 



Date: 09/23/22 00:08
Re: BLET Tentative National Agreement is out
Author: MrMRL

LOS - Layoff Sick / Sick Time

Non RR folks have to realize that the highly mathematical algorithms built into Precision Scheduled Railroading programs across all of the major US freight rail carriers have (for several years now) struggled and failed to comprehend and adapt to the existing norms of the highly unpredictable "Layoff Sick" factor inherently built into most road and basically all 'extra-board' railroader lifestyles. These (PSR) algorithms are computer based mathematical equations, they do not have feelings or human compassion. They don't understand (or care) that traffic sucks and it took you 2-3 hours to get home, or that your loved one has cancer, your long lived pet is sick, your kid is about to graduate or move out of state, the grass needs to be cut, etc. The algorithm only knows that it's been exactly 10 hours and 0 minutes since you hit submit/send on your last working ticket and it's now time to go back to work for an additional 10-12+ hours! When half (or more) of the available board of RRers suddenly and unpredictability lays-off sick (for example) every first Sunday in February on or just before some randomly annual American Football game (a non-holiday BTW) with little or no notice, the algorithm freaks out, fails, and the company(s) suffers with delayed freight due to the already under-trimmed workforce built into the system now being unavailable to compensate for the demand.

The big 4 (or 6 if you include Canada) RRs have continually cutback and trimmed their workforce down to boost profitability and forever appease those mysterious, unknown, and amazingly powerful shareholders. At the same time trimming, eliminating and eventually removing the various options for non compensated/paid/penalized employee time off via company "attendance policies", which conveniently (and repeatedly legally) fall outside most existing collective bargaining agreements. One of the big hurdles was limiting "Sick Time". (The other being FMLA time). Augmented attendance policies in recent years have finally for the most part discovered and implemented increasingly effective methods to wrangle "Sick" time by now penalizing that 24-7 workforce via a negative point based system. It whittles down to workforce intimidation and incentivization by simultaneously rewarding those few workaholic 'teachers-pets' with bonus points for needlessly sacrificing their own personal time off to benefit the companies bottom lines. Which also makes the lower scoring majority look like a lackluster workforce. All it really does under the surface is aid in dividing the existing workforce between the few 'haves' and the majority 'have-nots'. Just the way the bosses like it, let the workers fight amongst themselves while the bosses count the money... The underlying reason there's always been two or more major RR unions, not one.

I sadly predict that the current presented 'tentative agreement' will pass, though with a mediocre majority. Only to finally see many of those that voted to pass it, then simply collect and cash-in their anticipated back payment dues checks and walk/retire/quit. I sincerely hope I am wrong.

Mr. MRL ~ 16 years 6 months down, 22 years 5 months to go...



Date: 09/23/22 02:15
Re: BLET Tentative National Agreement is out
Author: trainjunkie

Post of the month Rob.



Date: 09/23/22 04:00
Re: BLET Tentative National Agreement is out
Author: bobwilcox

None of this solves the basic problem.  How do you get people to take T&E jobs until the eventual automation of the work some years in the future?

Bob Wilcox
Charlottesville, VA
My Flickr Shots



Date: 09/23/22 04:11
Re: BLET Tentative National Agreement is out
Author: MrMRL

bobwilcox Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> None of this solves the basic problem.  How do
> you get people to take T&E jobs until the eventual
> automation of the work some years in the future?

Easy, simply tell it to people straight that freight railroading is just an average paying, low qualification job (or high hour demanding side-gig) now. Akin to working at Taco Bell, or digging a ditch next to the freeway... Railroading as a life long enjoyable career and/or family tradition is quickly coming to a close in this country.

~ Mr. MRL



Date: 09/23/22 04:11
Re: BLET Tentative National Agreement is out
Author: engineerinvirginia

bobwilcox Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> None of this solves the basic problem.  How do
> you get people to take T&E jobs until the eventual
> automation of the work some years in the future?

I have a thought....if you get a person signed up on Railroad Retirement...we could make a rule that they stay on it for the rest of their lives.....that would make being forced to leave the service less costly in terms of retirement planning...I know younger people don't think about that, but they should be glad someone is!



Date: 09/23/22 06:40
Re: BLET Tentative National Agreement is out
Author: sphogger

"Employees in unassigned service (including extraboards) will be allowed to attend 3 annual routine/preventive medical care visits without being assessed any form of disciplinary points, demerits, or disciplinary citations under any Carriers’ attendance policies. 
o Exams must be scheduled at least thirty (30) days in advance and must take place on a Tuesday, Wednesday, or Thursday (excluding holidays) 
o Each excused absence includes the necessary time off prior to and/or following the exam (employees are entitled to 3 occurrences per year, not just 3 days)"


Unbelievable.   What other job does this?  Your health is secondary to the "needs of the service" as they used to say - in a job that will grind you down to nothing.  Dr's in the small town I lived in advised the job will "use you up".  Another person who was considering applying for a local railroad job was told by his Dr. DON'T DO IT.  Railroad town Dr's are well versed in the effects of railroad employment on workers and their families.  

I don't understand how the quality of life and pay issues morphed into a "sick time" issue.  I suspect Corporate & media gaslighting helped. 



Date: 09/23/22 08:00
Re: BLET Tentative National Agreement is out
Author: IC1038west

The class I labor relations and human resources departments just crapped in their last bed. The millennials could give a damn about professional integrity. The yacht club and equine rock stars have already let the verbs know how insignificant they are to wall street. It was great when everyone mattered.



Date: 09/23/22 10:16
Re: BLET Tentative National Agreement is out
Author: Off-pending

Patiently waiting for the one with the toy train to tell me that I need to vote for this. Or else.

I can’t in good conscience vote for this. I’d rather take my chances with Congress. If they force something upon us it is better than gladly taking it. This does nothing to address our issues. And the money is the least of my worries.
Self sustaining pools don’t work. They are more unpredictable than the unpredictable lifestyle we already have grown accustomed to. Recently I went from 1st out at 7am to 4 times out by noon. Later that afternoon I was 2nd out. That evening another engineer came off his rest and moved back to 3 times out. I didn’t end up going to work until 10am the next day. At least when I was first out the first day, I was rested and ready to go. I wasted a whole day constantly checking the line ups and the rest times of other engineers. This agreement spreads that cancer to other properties that aren’t self sustaining.
If this passes I know of at least one 30 year guy and three 10-15 year guys that are going to collect the backpay money and leave. My district is already working 8-10 employees short now.
Like Mr MRL, 28 years in 12 to go.

Posted from iPhone



Date: 09/23/22 12:15
Re: BLET Tentative National Agreement is out
Author: callum_out

I'l say it again, I highly doubt that Congress is going to force an agreement that was just turned down for cause. They'll
look like heros even to the general voting public if they fix this.You think the voting public is all warm and fuzzy for large
corporations right now? Hell now, they'll look for people who will stand up for their cause.

Out 



Date: 09/23/22 13:59
Re: BLET Tentative National Agreement is out
Author: Pacific5th

This agreement is crap just on the fact that the time off, self supporting extra boards and automatic bid sytem either have to be negotiated or go to binding arbritration. All of us in the industry have seen how the carriers negotiate and arbitraion normally goes in the carriers favor. 

then you got the Tue-Thur apointment only. I know 30 days out my doctor and dentist gets pretty slim on the pickings.

Oh and 1 paid leave day. That Most wont be able to use on any big holiday or event anyways. 

I have not ran into one person at work that will vote for this. FB rail groups seems to be nearly 100% against this. I can't believe that the unions put this out there. To many vauge deals for the company to use against us.



Date: 09/23/22 14:21
Re: BLET Tentative National Agreement is out
Author: 57A26

MrMRL Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> bobwilcox Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > None of this solves the basic problem.  How do
> > you get people to take T&E jobs until the
> eventual
> > automation of the work some years in the
> future?
>
> Easy, simply tell it to people straight that
> freight railroading is just an average paying, low
> qualification job (or high hour demanding
> side-gig) now. Akin to working at Taco Bell, or
> digging a ditch next to the freeway... Railroading
> as a life long enjoyable career and/or family
> tradition is quickly coming to a close in this
> country.
>
> ~ Mr. MRL
You mean to say I could make $108,000 a year at Taco Bell?  Who knew!



Date: 09/23/22 15:58
Re: BLET Tentative National Agreement is out
Author: Bandito

bobwilcox Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> None of this solves the basic problem.  How do
> you get people to take T&E jobs until the eventual
> automation of the work some years in the future?

Even full automation, after a period of one-man crews, will still leave Sir Lancelot Fritz several points shy of his stated 11% female diversity ratio target.



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