Western Railroad Discussion > Large rail union SMART-TD votes to reject labor deal (links)

BLET - Yes
​SMART-TD (UTU) - No


https://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/21/smart-td-votes-down-labor-deal-as-rails-move-closer-to-national-strike.html

https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/21/business/railroad-unions-votes/index.html

https://ble-t.org/news/split-decision-unions-for-railroad-engineers-and-conductors-take-different-routes-in-freight-rail-contract-ratification-vote/


~ Mr. MRL



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/21/22 06:18 by MrMRL.

Hokey Smokes!! I thought the BLE was gonna vote no. This is gonna be interesting.

Regards

Posted from iPhone

I'd like to a break down buy RR. I still highly doubt the BNSF and UP voted overwhelmingly yes. but I'm not suprised if the East coast guy did. A lot of the stuff we were pissed about (self releving pools, Auto bid system) was stuff they already had and did not effect them as much.

Pacific5th Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'd like to a break down buy RR. I still highly
> doubt the BNSF and UP voted overwhelmingly yes.
> but I'm not suprised if the East coast guy did. A
> lot of the stuff we were pissed about (self
> releving pools, Auto bid system) was stuff they
> already had and did not effect them as much.

Sorry, that information is confidential and won't be shared. The unions are very tight lipped about this.

After all, there's no reason to be suspicious about the vote counts.

SpringedSwitch Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Pacific5th Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I'd like to a break down buy RR. I still highly
> > doubt the BNSF and UP voted overwhelmingly yes.
> > but I'm not suprised if the East coast guy did.
> A
> > lot of the stuff we were pissed about (self
> > releving pools, Auto bid system) was stuff they
> > already had and did not effect them as much.
>
> Sorry, that information is confidential and won't
> be shared. The unions are very tight lipped about
> this.
>
> After all, there's no reason to be suspicious
> about the vote counts.
YEAH Right! I trust the unions about as much as I trust the Government 
from what I have seen all the BLET is interested in is taking my money!
David Colstrom
 

I am also surprised the engineers approved the contract.  But, it certainly did not get a hearty approval with that percentage of votes.  So maybe the money was more important than time off.
 

What about my Amtrak trip on Dec 7 to 12 on Amtrak 42 &43 from Latrobe, Pa to Philly, Pa?? Should I still go or Congress do something??

You wonder how many of those BLET "yes" votes were from people desiring the guaranteed money to insure
an easy exit from the profession.

Out 

callum_out Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You wonder how many of those BLET "yes" votes were
> from people desiring the guaranteed money to
> insure
> an easy exit from the profession.
>
> Out 

This!

Posted from iPhone

NY Times had an analytical article about the rail vote with an abundance of detail.

How the extra boards were cleaned out to create self protecting pools.

How local management blocks allowed days off.

The grueling, unpredictable schedules.

The political sellout, blocking a strike until after elections.

Thirty % fewer workers handling more freight.

Michael Paul Lindsey is quoted in the article.


Paywall possible
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/21/business/economy/freight-rail-union-contract.html

Posted from Android

I wonder what the vote breakdown by age looked like.  Perhaps the younger guys will put up with conditions for the money plus also moving up in seniority as the old guard walks.

Surface level BLET results, 53.5% yes, 46.5% no and 34% didn't cast a vote. Amazing people could care so much yet care so little!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/21/22 14:28 by NWrailfan.

masterphots Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I wonder what the vote breakdown by age looked
> like.  Perhaps the younger guys will put up with
> conditions for the money plus also moving up in
> seniority as the old guard walks.

I think it’s just the opposite. The Old Heads were always the biggest mile hogs, the younger guys have it figured out that life is more than work and dying a few years after pulling the pin.

Plus the last 10 years the Carrier’s have eliminated most all retirement jobs.

Regards

Posted from iPhone

NWrailfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Surafce level BLET results, 53.5% yes, 46.5% no
> and 34% didn't cast a vote. Amazing people could
> care so much yet care so little!

34% didn't cast a vote.

I wondered what that % would be.

Posted from Android

Willing to bet that 34% was the guys who said why bother the company will get what it want's anyway.

PHall Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Willing to bet that 34% was the guys who said why
> bother the company will get what it want's anyway.

Or they are the ones so frustrated and fed up and have one foot out the door anyway

I keep trying to come up with a well thought-out response to all of this, but I keep failing. I'm really suprised the BLET voted for the TA. I see a few people here (and elsewhere online) have speculated that the "eastern" guys voted yes, while everyone here says it was the "western" guys that voted yes. Very interesting that the two sides are pointing the finger to one another. While we already have things such as self-sustaining pools and rest days, I think the consensus was that more should have been asked for in the negotiations.

I predict congress will force the TA on the condcutors shortly.

 

Drknow Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> callum_out Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > You wonder how many of those BLET "yes" votes
> were
> > from people desiring the guaranteed money to
> > insure
> > an easy exit from the profession.
> >
> > Out 
>
> This!
>

Concur.

TAW

I voted for it.  (And I'm not leaving God willing, anytime soon.)  There's parts I don't like and those parts ARE what the railroad will get either way.  I feel it's the best we're going to get.  We could get worse.  I however, am not going to denigrate anyone who voted against it. 

Every one said we have the public behind us, the Democrats have our back, we'll get everything we asked for.  I told them BS to all of that.  On the surface, the public has been more supportive of blue collar/union labor recently.  Most of the strikes have been generally successful in getting some enhancements over the rejected proposals.  Most of those workers and unions took it in the shorts 30 or 40 years ago.  Their recent gains probably don't have them to the levels they should be at.  I've noticed some news outlets that were normally more pro-worker had articles and items that had hints that any disruptions caused by a strke were more labor's fault.  Too many of the only focus on pay and benefits that are generally better than the rest of the workforce.  They don't go into the other items behind and beyond the pay and benefits.

The bill to impose the PEB recommendations on parties that have not signed an agreement is still out there.  It would need to be ammended or replaced to include items in the rejected agreements that were not in the PEB.  Maybe those who've rejected their agreements can still come to an agreement.  I doubt it.  Congress will act.  I hope some congressperson offers an amendment that at least updates to the rejected agreement.  Maybe even legislate a few items not addressed, but I doubt that last part.

Oh, BTW.  Of the admittedly few people in my terminal who've stated an opinion that I'm aware of, about half voted for it.  That's a very small sampling of a fairly large terminal.  Maybe those few that I know voted yes is all their is, but there was support for it. 

 

I'm thankfully retired. From what I have read on this forum and talking with the unfortuate ones still left, the money was the best I have seen in 40 years. It will make up some of the losses of 1986, PEB291 and the 1996 agreement.However work rules and the blurring of road/yard jurisdictions have ruined the road jobs and elimated the yard jobs.A lot of this was before I retired 10 years ago. From what I have read, the western roads particularity, want you to work 7 days a week. No one should have to strike for a day off. My father went to work in a bridge gang on the Central of Georgiia 96 years ago, he had Sundays off. I think he said he worked 5 12's and usually went home on Saturday,a 60 hour week.It was also doing work so hard you could not pay anyone enough to do it now. It was shortened to 8 hours a day 5 days a week. He said that's why he paid union dues.I worked for almost 40 years in engine service. ZFrom 1973 to the mid 80's we would get raises in each contract and not lose much in work rules. Then in 1981 or 82 President appointd Arther van Wart to study rates of pay and work rules for train crews. If these recomemdations had been enacted, the basic day would be 160 miles at the same rate as a 100 mile day in 1984. There was to be very little seperation of road and yard work, qualifying time for vacation would be increased and all sorts of other improvements. Finally CSX gat to a trip rate, my first thought was thank God the van Wart commission is dead. I also liked having to bid jobs and if you didn't bid you would be assigned a job for a week. When I was first cut in as an engineer it was not unusual to be displaced of jobs 8 or 10 times a day. When you got the call you said what can I work today. There were halves, we were paid on the 1'st and 15'th, where I was marked up immediately after being displaced and would make 6 or 8 days in a half. Now to today. What I gather to be the biggest complaint is road jobs want assigned days off. I saw on this forun last week where the UP had a propsal that didn't lok too bad, only problem was it is at the whelms of the UP. Also there is no need for having an investigation for taking off to go to a doctors appointment. Those kinds of work rules went out 80 years ago. Also a complaint is that a day off in a hotel is not a day off. I agree with the membership there. I sympathize with all of you still left working. I have been there and am glad I'm gone. Its the only job I know of where everyone there is wishing there life away to be able to get away from the job.
Thanks for trying to read this jumbled jargon.

Sam