Western Railroad Discussion > the spin is on: "160K avg rail salary"

heard on a business show this AM: "the average Rail worker is making 160K after this 'settlement''

This seems like they're making the 'rail worker' into a greedy bastard who's making way more than you are and wanting even more, to the point of crippling the nation. On the face of it, this sounds like a distraction. In the truth of it, it makes the RR co's look like the victims. Does this sound familiar: "don't look at the facts, look at our 'truth'". The only way to get through the anger and apathy is to bring things to a head - just like a war, it never ends until there's a surrender. A brokered settlement is just like what's been going on in the Korean penninsula for 3 quarters of a century.

Well put Sir!

This is the insanity that the NCCC and propaganda minister Wilner have spewed out and Congress and the media have lapped up like pablum. The national committees screwed up by not squashing this BS from the git go.

Solidarity and regards

Posted from iPhone

dragoon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
... "the average Rail worker is making 160K after this 'settlement''


Are you saying this is not true?  What if it is?

Are you saying everyone at your terminal or seniority district are making 160k in compensation a year?! And don’t blow that “yeah, insurance and retirement included “ BS up my rectum.

If you’re making that kind money contact me privately and I wanna see if I can transfer my seniority or hire on there. In 25 years I made 100K once and I was working so much it helped my divorce fund too!

Eagerly awaiting your response!

Regards and solidarity.

Posted from iPhone

Drknow Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Are you saying everyone at your terminal or
> seniority district are making 160k in compensation
> a year?! And don’t blow that “yeah, insurance
> and retirement included “ BS up my rectum.
>
> If you’re making that kind money contact me
> privately and I wanna see if I can transfer my
> seniority or hire on there. In 25 years I made
> 100K once and I was working so much it helped my
> divorce fund too!
>
> Eagerly awaiting your response!
>
> Regards and solidarity.
>
> Posted from iPhone

When using "average salary" it always includes sums that pay for things that the carrier ponies up but you never see in your check....payment in kind if you will.... And depending on your road and the mileage of your specific job you may just enjoy low six digit base earnings...however...we fund our own retirement and that takes a goodly share off....there's the other usual things....and on our paycheck we may find that we keep just above half of biweekly earnings...my just above six digits becomes squarely 5 digits very quickly...My tax witholdings this year are around 35000 dollars of which I may get a few hundred refunded if I don't actually PAY!

I guess my sarcasm was lost in translation. Yes, I’m educated enough to realize that BENEFITS are included in the 160k numbers, BUT when one makes 85-95K gross and doesn’t get any “productivity funds” or other goodie’s then please tell me how in God almighties name I’m averaging the magical 160K?

Do we have a match on 401K? Nope. RRB? Sure, but every single business in this country pays into SS or other government funds so that’s a straw man.

40K a year for my group insurance plan? Christ sake write me a check and I think I can do better myself.

So what’s left? Hmmm…🤔

No more hats given away (PSR), but the yearly free hot dogs DO cost something…

Could it be the 160K is a bogus number??

Solidarity and regards

Posted from iPhone

Every Class-I TY&E Railroader, "what's a salary?"


Mr. MRL ~ 16+ years of being paid by the mile (hours/minutes).

MrMRL Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Every Class-I TY&E Railroader, "what's a salary?"
>
>
> Mr. MRL ~ 16+ years of being paid by the mile
> (hours/minutes).

25 years here. But I would never want to be on salary at a Class One.

Posted from iPhone

Drknow Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Are you saying everyone at your terminal or
> seniority district are making 160k in compensation
> a year?!

And a lot of employees make less than 160k, so obviously a lot make MORE in order to maintain that average. 160k, give me a break! Lol

I'll bet the $160K includes all employers costs including contributions to health insurance and retirement.  Most people's pay would look inflated if all items are included.

Too bad congress didn't force the union's demand for better working conditions on the railroads.

Wall Street demands that railroads squeeze every single penny they can for profits.  Sometimes that can be penny-wise, pound-foolish.

Stan Praisewater

Perhaps they are averaging in the executive pay, as well as senior managers in order to inflate the numbers.  They didn't specify that the pay was an average of "unionized rail workers", did they?  This is how spin doctors work, but I'm just guessing because I didn't hear the story or read it verbatim.

 

MP555 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Drknow Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Are you saying everyone at your terminal or
> > seniority district are making 160k in
> compensation
> > a year?!
>
> And a lot of employees make less than 160k, so
> obviously a lot make MORE in order to maintain
> that average. 160k, give me a break! Lol

Exactly my point. This magical 160k a year, where does this number come from? The NCCC/AAR? Frank Wilner? The great, great grandson of Casey Jones? I’m looking at my pay stub right now and for the first half of November I’ve got 82k made this year, total taxes withheld 23,327.34. There are two more haves this year and I am on vacation for 2 weeks so the last one will be short.
I should gross 88-89 this year and let’s say the company ponies up 40K in benefits and RRB( and I think that would be high, I could be wrong) that’s 128k.

If the national average is 160K I must be in one of the worst places on a Class One to work. I wanna be one of those guys knocking down 200k.

BTW I still haven’t heard back about that terminal that makes big bank.

Regards

Posted from iPhone

The $160k average fits the narrative of greedy employees trying to shut down America.

The comments above about adding in employer provided benefits (employer's share of social security or RRB, healthcare, options, etc) are right on target.  But, unless you know the group involved in the average $160k wages (which may differ from salary in that they include pensions, healthcare, etc), it's hard to make a clear statement.  It's entirely possible the source is the "employee benefits and compensation" line on the form 10-K. Divided by the average number of employees during the whole year.  So, DrKnow, and Lance Fritz, Jim Vena's portion of time, etc are all in the same bucket. My guess is that's how they did the math. Perfectly legal, but misleading. Taking the median (half of employees are above the line, half are below the line) is often more realistic

Talk radio, business TV etc has to be approached with a great deal of caution. Assume everyone on it has an agenda, and a point of view to be presented.  Not just the crazies, but the consultants, former congress people, etc.

Lackawanna484 has it pegged. I was playing a little devils advocate but y’all get the gist.

The 160k is a flim flam # that is being used to play the American public into hating on union railroad workers. America has been reduced to soundbites and memes and truth is heresy in the empire of lies.

Solidarity and regards

Posted from iPhone

=14pxThere’s a list of employee salaries on the San Luis & Rio Grande RR in Colorado here- =14pxhttps://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?1,5585110=14pxIt ranges from $161k for EVP of Operations in Wisconsin to $37k for MOW Crew in Alamosa.  That’s a ratio of 4.3 of lowest paid to highest paid.  No doubt there are higher paid people at Iowa Pacific headquarters.  The ratio at UP or other Class 1 railroads would be much higher.  As has been said, there are lots of ways to manipulate the employee numbers to make it look like railroaders are overpaid.

mapboy

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Talk radio, business TV etc has to be approached
> with a great deal of caution. Assume everyone on
> it has an agenda, and a point of view to be
> presented.  

And, other views NOT to be presented. Great salient point though, I've been treating the media in general, and all news media in particular, with a wary eye for years. Great advice...

JG

I work for a government agency so our compensation is quite a bit different but as of 2022 the "fringe" (pension, social security, medicare, workers compensation, health care, unemployment insurance, etc.)  paid by the agency on top of the average worker's salary is 85% for most staff.   For Fire and Police it is 102%.   

Health care alone is 43% of those totals. 

So I can see the average of $160k being correct when including fringe.   But it should be clearly reported as such in the original article.

Drknow Wrote:

>
> Exactly my point. This magical 160k a year, where
> does this number come from? The NCCC/AAR? Frank
> Wilner? The great, great grandson of Casey Jones?
> I’m looking at my pay stub right now and for the
> first half of November I’ve got 82k made this
> year, total taxes withheld 23,327.34. There are
> two more haves this year and I am on vacation for
> 2 weeks so the last one will be short.
> I should gross 88-89 this year and let’s say
> the company ponies up 40K in benefits and RRB( and
> I think that would be high, I could be wrong)
> that’s 128k.
 

I work a 12 hour yard shift 5 sometimes 6 days a week…throughout the entire year, and I barely clear $100K. And that is working as much as absolutely possible…if I could make $160K I WOULD. But it’s just simply
not possible…at least not in Seattle anyways. Maybe somewhere else on the system?

Posted from iPhone

The 160K AVERAGE number is a bullshit, Texican. Don’t let ‘em kid ya, I know some rank and file Hogs that work Pool and work ALL the time. 120-140k and that’s working a big mileage pool no time off.

The are twisting the numbers in the wind.

Solidarity and regards

Posted from iPhone

That $160k has got to be the "total compenstation" number (or employee cost if you look at it the way the bean counters do) rather than the actual paycheck before taxes.  That's the only way I can figure they came up with that number.  But yeah, it's totally being spun to make rail workers look greedy, and it sucks.  What's a $160k anyways if you can't take a sick day, go see the doctor, have to be "on-call" at all hours, etc.?  Doesn't sound so generous...

Nathan