Western Railroad Discussion > ATSF Surf Line Line Relocation Question

I’ve ridden the San Diego sub many times and just recently noticed some old culverts off to the side of the main after the Alicia Pkwy bridge and right before it curves under the 5 freeway in Mission Viejo. Was the line here relocated at some point?

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IIRC there were extensive sections realigned for 100 MPH in the late 1930s in anticipation of big traffic to the USMC and USN bases for the looming war.
And they did make 100 or more on many occassions and kept it at 90 for a long time.
Is it still 90?

They certainly still do every bit of 90 MPH through here, Ill post a few photos of the culverts I took today.

Heres the culvert 

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I like little mysteries like this. Looks like the realignment was between 1942 (the map) and 1946 (the aerial image). It was reverse curve with the sharper curve in a cut that was covered over with a strip mall in the 1970's.

Ted Curphey
Ontario, OR

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Thanks for the info, really is interesting seeing how much has changed in the area. Amazing that the old culverts have survived this long.

> Looks like the realignment was between 1942 (the map)
> and 1946 (the aerial image).

I bet it was the 1930s. A "1942" map won't be
that up to date. Too bad SFe timetables didn't
show curve speeds circa 1940.

Santa Fe started running the San Diegians in 1938.

timz Wrote:
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> > Looks like the realignment was between 1942 (the map)
> > and 1946 (the aerial image).
>
> I bet it was the 1930s. A "1942" map won't be that up to date. Too bad SFe timetables didn't
> show curve speeds circa 1940.

Given that there's a 1938 aerial layer on historicaerials.com for this location, maybe the 1942 map could have been based on the 1938 aerials. (Were they making topo maps from aerials back then, or was that a postwar thing?)

The 1938 aerials don't seem to show any signs of the new alignment, so I think the best we can narrow it down is between 1938 and 1946. I couldn't find the 1938 source images at the USGS to confirm the date, however.

I believe that the line adjustments were made to provide better time keeping for the new San Diegans that began service in 1938.

The line change was between 1939 and 1946 base on serial photos. Signor's LA Division book noted that the Santa Fe had an improvement program from 1939 through 1943 that reduced or eliminated curve plus adding track to passing tracks at several on the Fourth District. CTC was place in service between Fullerton and Old Town (San Diego) in 1944 and some additional track changes were made in 1946.