Steam & Excursion > Thoughts on a Burlington O5 & the 261

The thread below about the 261 folks considering a second engine is interesting, but rumors being just that ... I have no inside information on what the 261 folks may or may not do, but I would obviously be thrilled to see a Q O5 (or S4 for that matter) return to steam. We can argue till the cows come home over the merits of the restoration of a 4-8-4 from our favorite road (that said, I am glad to see that just maybe, some of my Q influence rubbed off on Robert in his thread about a 2900), so to that end, allow me to start the fire, if you will.

Of the four CB&Q O5s that are still in existence:

5614 - Class O5B at St. Joe, Missouri. Oil burner.
5629 - Class O5B at Golden Colorado at the Colorado RR Museum. Oil burner. IIRC, this engine was donated by the Q to the Intermountain Chapter of the NHRS. It may now be owned by the CRRM, but I don't know.
5631 - Class O5A at Sheridan, Wyoming. Coal burner.
5633 - Class 05A at Douglas, Wyoming. Coal burner.

- All four are roller bearing equipped throughout. 5629, 5631 and 5633 are fairly close to active (and steam friendly) rails. 5614 is a couple of blocks from the tracks in St. Joseph.
- While one might consider 5614 or 5629 as the likely candidates due to the fact that they are oil burners, take into consideration that they were not built that way, but converted to burn oil by the CB&Q.
- I am not an expert on steam locomotives, but they all look to be in relatively good condition considering. I have photographed the interior of the cab of 5629 and it is in great condition, appearance wise. I recall trading emails with a fellow Q fan ... the 5629 firebox would require some work IIRC.
- I do believe that the Milwaukee S3s and the Q O5s are relatively close in comparison due to their Baldwin heritage.
- BNSF has been relative steam friendly in the past few years ... 261, 4449, 3751, 1522, etc., have polished the rails.
- On 17 Oct 1944, a Q O5 pulled a record-breaking (at the time) 82 car mail train loaded with mail and packages for servicemen overseas ... they can handle a typical excursion consist.
- The Illinois RR Museum moved a steam engine from Texas to Illinois a few years back ('bout the same time they moved CB&Q 3007), so if somebody had the $$$$, I am sure one of the Q O5s could be moved in the same manner.

I agree with BNSF Bob when he said if "an 05a makes it to the shop floor in Mpls, I may re-mortgage the house and dip into my 401k to help them out". Count me in. I've got a Navy bud that lives not far from the Twin Cities that has an extra room, so I would be there!

Regards & Everywhere West,
Burlington John

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To go with the thread above ...

Regards & Everywhere West,
Burlington John

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If I had my pick of any 4-8-4 to be returned to serviceable condition for excursions, my first choice would be an O5, and a close second would be a Frisco 4500 class. Of course all of this would moot as far as I am concerned if any of the Rio Grande M64's or M68's had been saved from the scrapper.

Con

A big, modern Baldwin, and that whistle, oh that whistle. It would be THE classic BNSF could call their own. Let's hope this is for real.

burlingtonjohn Wrote:

> I agree with BNSF Bob when he said if "an 05a
> makes it to the shop floor in Mpls, I may
> re-mortgage the house and dip into my 401k to help
> them out". Count me in. I've got a Navy bud that
> lives not far from the Twin Cities that has an
> extra room, so I would be there!
>
> Regards & Everywhere West,
> Burlington John

Thanks, John for the info and the photos.

I was introduced to steam (and railfanning, for that matter) with the Q 5632 as a kid in the early 1960's. I have heard the "stack talk" of two dozen restored steam engines in low-tonnage mainline excursion duty but none compare to the "bark" of a Burlington O5a. The only engine that comes close among operating steam locos is the NKP 765. If a surviving O5a could reprise the glorious but fateful exploits of the 5632 in the 60's it would be a be like a dream come true. Bob

Bob,

While never having had the honor of personally seeing a Q O5 in action, I do have the CD of the 'Sunday Only' album.

On it is a track of the 5632 marching westbound up the hill out of Burlington Iowa. As I recall, the microphone was mounted on the tender.

The sound! Absolutely incredible. Listening to the whistle and one of West Burlington's finest at work ... if that doesn't get you steam religion, I don't know what will.

Regards & Everywhere West,
Burlington John

This is a fact. I have photographed steam locomotives in approximately 80 countries, starting in the late 1950's. There is not the slightest doubt in my mind... the Burlington 4-8-4, O5b class, i.e., #5632, was consistantly the LOUDEST steam locomotive I have ever heard! Reading T-1 4-8-4's and Frisco #1522, were just understudies to the King of Noise. Keystone1

I can attest to the fact that the 5632 was a loud, fast, workhorse. It was a magnificent
machine, another 05-b would be a dream come true for those of us who are old enough to remember.
Another magnificent machine is S4 Hudson #4000 the former "Aeolus" (Big Alice the Goon)the protection power for the Zephyr that was domiciled in North La Crosse, Wisconsin and now resides in Copeland Park, a gift to the City by Harry Murphy, then President of the Q. It was placed in the park in 1963, I was told that the cylinders were filled with oil at that time by employees in
hopes that at some time a resurrection would take place. Steve and crew have done a wonderful
job with the 261. I hope that they are able to revive another example of big steam and are able
to find a hospitable carrier on which to operate..... how about the DME between Minnesota City
and Owatonna? Just a thought....

Just a couple of comments. The 261 is an Alco, not a Baldwin, so she doesn't share any substantial heritage with the O-5. ( She is very much like the R.I. and D.& H 4-8-4's, also from Alco ). The earlier, larger Milw S-2 class engines were Baldwins, but I don't know whether they share any design elements or specs with the O-5's. CB&Q Pres. Murphy was very fond of his road's big steamers, and used to enjoy sitting in the back yard of his Aurora home, listening to the O-5's sound off when they were pulled from storage to assist during traffic peaks in the mid to late '50's.

I don't believe 5629 could be in the running from CRRM due to the lack of a connection to BNSF's Golden Branch, which would entail a new public road crossing and a bridge over a creek, not to mention a switch on the Golden Line. This is the reason that the C&S rotary and UP steam switcher are stuck outside museum grounds, and the reason why the Rio Grande Zephyr F's had to be trucked onto museum grounds. On the other hand, the one on Display in either Sheridan or Douglas, WY, would only require laying level grade panel track. -- -- -- -- -- JLH

Wild speculation, of course, however I'll add that the last time I saw 5614, about ten years ago, it was in frightening external condition and would, on it's face, seeem the least plausible of the four in the sense of work necessary to operate. However, that doesn't mean it wouldn't be the easiest to acquire.

I was privileged to ride 5632 on a Omaha/Lincoln "Circle Tour" excurson in 1964. Spent the vast majority of the time hanging out the baggage car, which in those days was dead behind the tank. Yes, she was loud!

John

I don't think anyone who ever heard an O5 would tell you that any other engine ever sounded as loud. Although I was only 13 years old when I last rode behind her, 5632 really cemented my love for fast, mainline steam. I would love to see an O5 under steam once again. But then, 261 has her own charm and she'll be pleasing people again in June. If I can't have an O5 then I will take a particular Milwaukee Road S3.

Silver Sky

Have never heard one of the Burlington 4-8-4s, but Reading and Northern's ex-Gulf, Mobile & Northern No. 425 certainly "out barked" all the others at the Steamtown Grand Opening in 1995. She also showered everyone within a hundred yards or so with a coating of cinders. Not bad for a Pacific.

It is heartwarming to know that a few others besides myself dream of seeing a Burlington Route O5 class 4-8-4 restored to active service. I once did a photographic study of #5629 on the grounds of the Colorado Railroad Museum and I have long dreamed of seeing her restored to serviceable condition. The CB&Q condemned her due to some firebox problems, but this does not mean that she can not be restored to running condition. The biggest problem would be laying enough track to get her off the museum's property, as she like other pieces of equipment, is pretty well isolated.

I would point out that in 1992 the Durango & Silverton Narrow Gauge Railroad traded K-37 #497 to the Cumbres & Toltec Scenic Railroad for the remains of K-36 #482, which was nothing more than a rusted out hulk, and the Durango & Silverton restored her to operating condition, which was an absolute miracle. I would argue that to bring #5629 back to life might be a tough job, but it would not be impossible.

I have a sound recording of #5632 in action, it was produced by the now defunct Railroad Record Club, and it is a deep shame that #5632 ended up going to the scrapper's torch over an argument involving the costs of her storage.

I would love to see a Burlington O5 returned to steam. After reading limited information something was kinda attemped a few years ago. What ever happened with that?

I hate to be a party-pooper but the local Chambers of Commerce in Sheridan and Douglass both hype their CB&Q 4-8-4's as significant tourist attractions.  There is a whole string of passenger cars at Douglass that would be stranded without anything to "pull" them.  At Sheridan, the O-5 sits right in front of the Historic Sheridan Inn with Buffalo Bill historical connections.  It seems like it would be very difficult to convince either one to let one go.