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Steam & Excursion > Jitong Railway 7081Date: 06/14/06 18:50 Jitong Railway 7081 Author: africansteam Pursuant to the recent postings about the Chinese QJ 2-10-2s coming to the US, I am posting an in-service photo of the 7081 by my friend Chris Stark. It is shown at 6:00 AM, accelerating out of Yamenmaio station between Chabuga and Daban. This locomotive had the distinction of hauling the last steam powered passenger train on the Jitong Railway. Anyone want to hazard a guess as to what its first passenger assignment in the US might be?
Africansteam ![]() Date: 06/14/06 21:20 Re: Jitong Railway 7081 Author: ts1457 I just have a hard time imagining a 2-10-2 as a passenger engine, even with the pictures of the Chinese examples. Can anyone think of any USA 2-10-2's that regularly pulled passenger trains (other than as helpers or pushers)?
In spite of my trouble imagining the sight, I expect that the Chinese 2-10-2's will look pretty darned good on North American varnish. Date: 06/14/06 22:05 Re: Jitong Railway 7081 Author: Mgoldman That's a great shot.
I never had a chance to visit that side of the planet. Hopefully, they keep at least one, if not a double headed set in Chinese livery. Those of us who missed the opportunity can at least try to relive that experience. BTW - Can you picture a QJ with an Amtrak engine behind it? Date: 06/15/06 06:01 Re: Jitong Railway 7081 Author: Nitehostler ts1457 Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > I just have a hard time imagining a 2-10-2 as a > passenger engine, even with the pictures of the > Chinese examples. Can anyone think of any USA > 2-10-2's that regularly pulled passenger trains > (other than as helpers or pushers)? > > In spite of my trouble imagining the sight, I > expect that the Chinese 2-10-2's will look pretty > darned good on North American varnish. I might be stretching things just a tad here, but the SP did use 2-10-2's on 327/328, the Dunsmuir to Grants pass connection. This occurred into the early 1950's. While 2-10-2's were not the sole power, they were used along with 4-8-2's, 4-6-2's and 2-8-2's. One specific number that comes to mind is 3660. Tom Date: 06/15/06 06:21 Re: Jitong Railway 7081 Author: ts1457 Nitehostler Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > I might be stretching things just a tad here, > but the SP did use 2-10-2's on 327/328, the > Dunsmuir to Grants pass connection. > This occurred into the early 1950's. While > 2-10-2's were not the sole power, they were used > along with 4-8-2's, 4-6-2's and > 2-8-2's. One specific number that comes to mind > is 3660. > > Tom Thanks, I should have figured the SP as a possibility. Date: 06/15/06 06:47 Re: Jitong Railway 7081 Author: johnacraft ts1457 Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > I just have a hard time imagining a 2-10-2 as a > passenger engine Ahem. With a username like "Ts 1457" you, of all people, should know the most famous example of 2-10-2s on passenger trains ;) JAC Date: 06/15/06 07:59 Re: Jitong Railway 7081 Author: ts1457 johnacraft Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > ts1457 Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > I just have a hard time imagining a 2-10-2 as a > > passenger engine > > Ahem. With a username like "Ts 1457" you, of all > people, should know the most famous example of > 2-10-2s on passenger trains ;) > > JAC Class Ts No. 1457 was a 4-8-2. I can think of places on the railroad in question where 2-10-2's may have been used in emergency service on a regular passenger train, but I can't think of a regular assignment. Remember I excluded helper and pusher service. If I'm missing something, please let me know. Date: 06/15/06 08:18 Re: Jitong Railway 7081 Author: SilverSky If you have a copy of the "The Story of the Grand Canyon Railway" by Al Richmond, there are photos of AT&SF 2-10-2s on passenger trains on the line. Chapter Nine discusses the steam and diesel power used on the line and has a list of locomotives (by class) that have been identified as operating on the line through photographs, accident reports, dispatcher's sheets, etc. 1600, 1674 and 3800 class 2-10-2s are documented by locomotive number as having operated on the line.
Silver Sky Date: 06/15/06 08:23 Re: Jitong Railway 7081 Author: johnacraft ts1457 Wrote:
> Remember I excluded helper and pusher service. I overlooked that. Spoilsport ;) JAC Date: 06/15/06 15:15 Re: Jitong Railway 7081 Author: southern_steam_nut Are they going to "Americanize" them or leave them as is?
Date: 06/15/06 22:04 Re: Jitong Railway 7081 Author: ts1457 SilverSky Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > If you have a copy of the "The Story of the Grand > Canyon Railway" by Al Richmond, there are photos > of AT&SF 2-10-2s on passenger trains on the line. > Chapter Nine discusses the steam and diesel power > used on the line and has a list of locomotives (by > class) that have been identified as operating on > the line through photographs, accident reports, > dispatcher's sheets, etc. 1600, 1674 and 3800 > class 2-10-2s are documented by locomotive number > as having operated on the line. > > Silver Sky Thanks, that's interesting. Date: 06/15/06 22:20 Re: Jitong Railway 7081 Author: Nitehostler SilverSky Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > If you have a copy of the "The Story of the Grand > Canyon Railway" by Al Richmond, there are photos > of AT&SF 2-10-2s on passenger trains on the line. > Chapter Nine discusses the steam and diesel power > used on the line and has a list of locomotives (by > class) that have been identified as operating on > the line through photographs, accident reports, > dispatcher's sheets, etc. 1600, 1674 and 3800 > class 2-10-2s are documented by locomotive number > as having operated on the line. > > Silver Sky Absolutely correct & I should have remembered that. The ATSF 2-10-2s were even bigger than SPs too...85,000 lbs. or so on the t.e. vs. 75,100 lbs. for the SP F-3, 4, and 5s. One of these big engines rolled over in Tooker Cut near Mile 58 on her way back from the Canyon many years back. I read the ICC report & it hinted at excessive speed. No fatalities on this one. Tom Date: 06/15/06 22:27 Re: Jitong Railway 7081 Author: Nitehostler ts1457 Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > johnacraft Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > ts1457 Wrote: > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > > ----- > > > I just have a hard time imagining a 2-10-2 as > a > > > passenger engine > > > > Ahem. With a username like "Ts 1457" you, of > all > > people, should know the most famous example of > > 2-10-2s on passenger trains ;) > > > > JAC > > Class Ts No. 1457 was a 4-8-2. I can think of > places on the railroad in question where 2-10-2's > may have been used in emergency service on a > regular passenger train, but I can't think of a > regular assignment. Remember I excluded helper and > pusher service. If I'm missing something, please > let me know. As to emergency service, SP would use the bigger "Decks" for this use. Guy Dunscomb had a photo of one on either 51 or 52 when the regular power was taken off. I also know of one instance where a soft plug was dropped on a 4400 while at the head end of 98 and a 3700 was used from King City to San Luis Obispo. A number of these had disc main drivers & were allowed 55 mph... and no doubt exceeded that a little if needed. Tom Date: 06/16/06 13:24 Re: Jitong Railway 7081 Author: southern_steam_nut Whats a "soft plug"?
Date: 06/18/06 05:55 Re: Jitong Railway 7081 Author: johnacraft southern_steam_nut Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > Whats a "soft plug"? It's also called a "fusible plug." A hole is drilled and threaded in the crown sheet, and the plug is screwed in. The steel plug has a hole drilled through, which is filled with a metal that melts at a lower temperature than the firebox steel. If the crown sheet overheats due to low water, the plug "drops," i.e. the metal in the "hole" melts. Instead of a boiler explosion, you get a firebox full of steam, which usually puts out the fire. JAC Date: 06/18/06 06:19 "soft plug" Author: railscenes The soft plug is a safety feature at the top of the crown sheet of the fire box. If the boiler water is allowed to drop below the top of the crown sheet the plug will soften from the extreme heat created in the absence of water to cool the soft plug. It would be similar to but not quite the same as the soft plug in a standard kitchen pressure cooker. The soft plug is one of several methods to protect the steam loco from boiler explosion or implosion. The other obvious one to most of us is the pop-off or safety valves on top of the boiler that are designed to relieve boiler over pressure.
The difference is that the plug at the top of the crown sheet of the fire box in a steam loco separates the fire box from the water under pressure in the boiler. If the water level in the steam locomotive boiler drops below the level of the crown sheet the heat of the fire box should be enough to melt or soften the plug enough to where the pressure of the boiler will force the the plug inward towards the fire box. This in turn should extinguish the fire and should avoid a boiler explosion or complete crown sheet failure or meltdown. It is still dangerous as the cab of the steam loco would fill with extremely hot super heated steam. You might want to start a thread on this topic and get some of our regular contributors from the back shops. We have some of the best steam mechanics in the nation contributing to Trainorders.com. I am just a long time "arm chair" steamer and enjoy learning the trade as well as volunteering on the few steam operations that are left. Inspector Gadget Date: 06/18/06 14:50 Re: Jitong Railway 7081 Author: agentatascadero Nitehostler Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > ts1457 Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > johnacraft Wrote: > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > > ----- > > > ts1457 Wrote: > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > ----- > > > > I just have a hard time imagining a 2-10-2 > as > > a > > > > passenger engine > > > > > > Ahem. With a username like "Ts 1457" you, of > > all > > > people, should know the most famous example > of > > > 2-10-2s on passenger trains ;) > > > > > > JAC > > > > Class Ts No. 1457 was a 4-8-2. I can think of > > places on the railroad in question where > 2-10-2's > > may have been used in emergency service on a > > regular passenger train, but I can't think of a > > regular assignment. Remember I excluded helper > and > > pusher service. If I'm missing something, > please > > let me know. > > As to emergency service, SP would use the bigger > "Decks" for this use. Guy Dunscomb had a photo of > one on either 51 or 52 when > the regular power was taken off. I also know of > one instance where a soft plug was dropped on a > 4400 while at the head end > of 98 and a 3700 was used from King City to San > Luis Obispo. A number of these had disc main > drivers & were allowed 55 mph... > and no doubt exceeded that a little if needed. > > Tom One of the SP collector series videos depicts a westbound two car passenger local leaving Truckee behind a 2-10-2. I recall also that the Portland-Ashland Rogue River trains used 2-8-2's as regular power, i would think frieght engines powered all passenger trains on the Siskiyou line. This probably means that the 4449 trip on the line was a first for the GS type. Date: 06/18/06 19:07 Re: "soft plug" Author: RealSteam ""The soft plug is a safety feature besides the Pop-off valves on top of a steam loco boiler to relieve boiler over-pressure. It would be almost the same as the soft plug in a standard kitchen pressure cooker. ""
That is incorrect. A "soft plug" or "fusiable plug" are not even close to the same thing. The two items are mechanically different. The safety vale is a pressure relief to avoid exceeding the designed press for the boiler. A "soft plug" will not drop because of excessive pressure. It will only drop when the crown sheet has been uncovered from water. In addition to that, the crew in cab would not be exposed to superheated steam. The steam coming out of a crown sheet, regardless of what locomotive you speak of would only be saturated steam. Superheated steam is only available after steam has passed through the superheater units. |