Steam & Excursion > Another steam whistle thread

Here's my old Santa Fe whistle. It's not stamped or numbered, so no way to tell what it was used on. It's 6" in diameter, with 6 chambers. It's cast iron, made by LFM (Locomotive Finished Materials, Atchison, KS. The LFM plant is now Rockwell, and they still make railroad castings). It looks like the whistles in the other posts have female threads in their valves. This one has male threads about 2-3/4" across, and about an inch in depth. They are tapered but finer than most pipe threads. Would this whistle be screwed directly into the boiler, or into a coupling or adapter? Are these threads standard, or something special? It would be fun to hook this thing up to 300lbs of steam & see what it sounds like. This one came out of the Topeka Shops stores department in the early 50's when they got rid of their steam parts inventory.

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"Are these threads standard, or something special?"

Although I have seen some examples otherwise, the vast majority will be threaded 12 tpi, tapered (obviously) 1/4" per foot,IIRC. Same as a washout plug. Standard, yes, as far as steam locomotives go. 12 threads per inch, regardless of diameter, is found on most everything threaded on a locomotive boiler itself. With a few exceptions......

LIL_BUDDY Wrote:

> 1/4" per foot



Don't you mean 3/4" per foot?

The 12 thread pitch of steam locomotive threads helped to keep lower pressure cannery and industrial boiler fittings from being interchanged with ICC standard boiler requirements. You can start the other threads into a locomotive type AAR fitting but it will not go very far before the interference factor ruins the day.

A friend was trying to make an adapter for a locomotive whistle and was not aware of the slight difference in thread pitch. Once I told him to check the pitch of the thread with a pitch gauge not just the outside diameter, he had to change his gearbox setting on the lathe and then things began to fit up nicely. A full size steam whistle is not light and trying to hold it and twist it into a fitting still in the lathe chuck to check for the final tapered thread fit requires one big tough guy or better yet, two big tough guys so the lathe is not damaged.

A lathe with a taper attachment is almost mandatory for someone doing serious locomotive rebuild and restoration. The older Machinery's Handbooks and other machine shop reference manuals had entire chapters and sections on the special requirements for the tapers and threads required for locomotive machine work.

Yeah, that's what I get for typing and talking at the same time. Thanks! 3/4 per foot

Third time's the charm: Can also be 1 1/4" or 1 1/2" taper per foot....such as a wash out plug. Whew!! No wonder I work on Diesels now!!

Here is a 5 chime Santa Fe whistle. The letters ATSF are cast into the top of the whistle.
This whistle is from a 2-10-2.

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I heard the 3751's whistle is a 6 chime. It know it sure makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up when I hear it. Especilly some of the old heads that know how to "work her". Somebody said something about a small hole drilled in the bottom of it's whistle to make it sound right, anybody know why? Crackerjack?...Pat

patd3985 Wrote:
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> I heard the 3751's whistle is a 6 chime. It know
> it sure makes the hair on the back of my neck
> stand up when I hear it. Especilly some of the old
> heads that know how to "work her". Somebody said
> something about a small hole drilled in the bottom
> of it's whistle to make it sound right, anybody
> know why? Crackerjack?...Pat

Inside the boiler shell there is a drain hole drilled in the whistle's dry pipe. This hole allows collected condensate to drain so that you don't get a "wet whistle" sound on the first toot.

-YD-

Thanx...Pat

And I thought they were all made of brass...

Now I can't say for sure, because I have niether thread gages nor a locomotive in front of me, plus I never checked when I did have them in front of me... but, the Railway Pipe Fitter's Handbook says that all the pipes use 11 1/2 threads per inch (except 3/4" pipe which uses 14 TPI) Briggs thread ( 1 in 32 = 3/4" to the foot). I would say you could get a 12 TPI thread gage to work if you hold your tongue right, but an 11 1/2 gage will probably fit better.

I've added this in a later edit: I think it's really important for anyone who has a whistle, whether you intend to put it under pressure or not, to absolutely verify exactly what thread you have and exactly what thread you're going to attempt to connect it to. That means using accurate thread gages. For a pipe around the size of a locomotive whistle, you should be able to screw the thing on for several turns before a wrench needs to be put on it. The thing is, even when it's fully threaded, there will only be an inch, or less, of threads actually engaged. The difference between 12 tpi and 11 1/2 tpi could be catastrophic for people standing around a whistle (how much does it weigh) being propelled by gravity AND 175-300 psi. Or, if the thing took too much vibration and pounding out on the road with improper threading, it could fall off along the ROW.

I could imagine a scenario where, years ago, a guy gets a genuine locomotive whistle, but the thing won't screw in to his pressure supply. A buddy cuts new threads on it so it will fit. Years down the road, the guy after the next to own it, with good intentions, offers to mount it on XYZ locomotive (or whatever source) so all can hear the beautiful tone. Next thing you know, someone has a lunkenheimer in their junkenheimer, or worse yet, doesn't get to tell their story 'cause they're holding daisies.

Be safe.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/04/09 18:35 by AdamPhillips.

LOL.....AdamPhillips, that's fabulous!!!

ATSF 3751 had a 5-chime during the first year or two of her operation and, yes, with the right engineman and circumstances she really could raise the hair on the back of your neck!

However, for some reason quite beyond me her dedicated volunteer operators decided to fit a 6-chime. It's a grand, mellow and wonderful whistle, but it's most certainly not the 5-chime! Watch a few videos of early and more recent runs and you'll have the chance to enjoy the two, different but each wonderful in their own way.

John

I was told that the 6 chime belonged to one of the volunteers,an elderly gentleman named Bill(don't recall his last name)who was one of the last hogheads to run 3751 in her last days of regular service. I met him back in the 90's, while working on her in Fontana. I was told he is now deceased, but got to run her a bit before he passed away. Wow! What a way to go!

4-12-2 Wrote:

> ATSF 3751 had a 5-chime during the first year or
> two of her operation and, yes, with the right
> engineman and circumstances she really could raise
> the hair on the back of your neck!
>
> However, for some reason quite beyond me her
> dedicated volunteer operators decided to fit a
> 6-chime. It's a grand, mellow and wonderful
> whistle, but it's most certainly not the 5-chime!

According to some information Ron Chamberlain recently posted to another list, the 6-chamber whistle on 3751 now is an LFM-540 "passenger" whistle, which Santa Fe started using in the 30's. The whistle she had previously was a 5-chamber LM-192 "freight" whistle. The LM-191 was the 5-chamber "passenger" whistle that preceeded the LFM-540.

What does the LFM-540 And LM-191/92 stand for? Where can I hear the sound of both the 5 chime and 6 chime to compare?...Pat

LFM as explained above, is locomotive Finished Materials. LM191 and LM192 are just the pattern/drawing numbers. The ATSF happened to have two different length five chimes. Also the 6-chime made by LFM and the ones made by the ATSF shops sound different. If you go to my web page, at the bottom there are two videos embedded that feature a couple whistles that I've built. One is tuned like an SP 6-chime and the other is a copy of a Nathan 5-chime, which sounds like lower pitched of the two ATSF 5-chimes. http://westernlocomotivesupply.com

Crackerjack!,my man, I visited your website and all I can say is "Whoa...Dude!!! That was purely awesome!!! You are definately the "Man" when it comes to whistles! Thanx a bunch!...Pat

One last shot of my Santa Fe 6" LFM.

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So I have a question....with steam whistles, was there a way to adjust the pitch?