Steam & Excursion > Why 4014!??

Since they haven't checked any, why not the Cheyenne engine? Cheaper shipping. And with all the trading of appliances with stuffed engines to get good parts going on, why not? And Cheyenne is a DRY climate. How long was it under water? What would be the problem? Does it lack stuff above the waist?

Posted from Android

One can consider that 4004 may be 4/5 mile from mainline, may have asbestos lagging, freeze water damage, boiler rust, and what is maintenance record before shut down, are appliances present, axle and rod bearing condition, staybolts, etc. Consider also that UP can move objects across country easily. I am not an expert for comparing 4004 to 4014.

But on the other hand, there is that 4005, just down the road in Denver, and it has been inside a building for a looooooonnng time.

Are service records still available? I would think if they are (I bet they are) it gives them a pretty good idea what condition the locomotives were in when retired, like mileage and service days...was there much of a difference between the "early" models and the later ones? Were there "good" ones and "bad" ones? I've always heard that locomotives of a certain class all performed differently, as do trucks (my company operates an order of 3 that I watched come through the assembly line together, and one is great, one is pretty good, one is a dog)I wonder if this would be considered along with the conditions each have been preserved in?

Cheers, Dave

Remember that 4004 has given up many parts for the 3985. So that might very well be the reason behind not going after it. Also in August of 1985, 4004 was under about 6 feet of water after flooding in Cheyenne.

4005 has the welded up drawbar. They broke it moving it in. Can this be used again? Or swapped out for a good one? Will Forneys participate?

Plus I think that the 4004 is pretty much locked in where it sits. With all of the businesses that have been built across the street, moving it back to live rails would probably be a major hurdle. I remember seeing the pictures of when it first went into the park and even back then it was a major undertaking. How far is the 4005 from live rails? What obstacles might have been built to make that loco hard to move?

SD45X Wrote:

> 4005 has the welded up drawbar. They broke it
> moving it in.

Can you expand on that? I've heard various conflicting stories of what got bent up and how when 4005 was moved in.

The 4005 has been inside the new Forney Museum of Transportation in Denver for the last 11 years, but it spent the previous 30 years outside in the elements at the old Forney.

I seem to recall someone said there was some frame damage to it when it was shoved in at the Forney Museum I believe when it first arrived.. My dad recalls it was shoved in by a Bulldozer..

Mike Keithly
Kimball, NE

What about 4006? It's in St. Louis and still has direct connection to the UP mainline. However I highly doubt the Museum of Transportation would let go of it. They didn't show any interest in letting their Y6 go out when NS wanted to restore it years ago.

Posted from iPhone

MikeUP4770 Wrote:
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> I seem to recall someone said there was some frame
> damage to it when it was shoved in at the Forney
> Museum I believe when it first arrived.. My dad
> recalls it was shoved in by a Bulldozer..

They tried to make a very hard left hand turn and derailed the entire front engine. The bulldozer was used to push on the coupler while two C&S I believe engines pulled on it to get it back on rails and there it stayed. The asbestos was remove while it was being moved to the new location so the boiler shell can't be in very good shape.
Steve



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/14/12 21:25 by wpjones.

Visited the 4006 in 2008.

The years have not exactly been kind to the 4006 as she has been outside since donation. Missouri gets lots of rain and the humidity is high, so things like boiler lagging tend to stay wet once soaked. I saw something resembling moss growing in some locations and grass and weeds were growing in the stoker trough. She may still have the asbestos lagging in the usual places. I fear that the 4006 has lots of rust and corrosion going on.

It appears that the tender with the 4006 may be from a Challenger as it has a passenger steam heat line.

Bob

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If we're are going to discuss the merits of each big boy, how about the 4018 in Dallas that is prepared to move to a new home? I know the cylinder rods were cut. Any other issues with that one?

Posted from iPhone

Didn't the original postings on this subject state that UP has already evaluated all of the Big Boys still in existance and determined that 4014 was the one that was the most likely candidate for a successful restoration to an operating condition?

Bob

HotWater Wrote:
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> But on the other hand, there is that 4005, just
> down the road in Denver, and it has been inside a
> building for a looooooonnng time.


Wasn't 4005 the one that got a bent frame in a derailment? I think a section worker threw a main line switch in front of it at 40 mph. It wound up on it's side with a bunch of cars piled up. It was repaired & put back to work for a while.

4005- http://www.forneymuseum.org/News_BigBoyWreck.html

4004- was flooded up to its running boards at one time while in the park and still has its asbestos lagging that has been holding the moisture against the boiler for 50+ years. It's in pretty rough shape.

Per a Facebook posting by the museum, Museum of the American Railroad hasn't been contacted by UP about 4018.

http://www.facebook.com/HistoricTrains

up421 Wrote:
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> Visited the 4006 in 2008.
>

> It appears that the tender with the 4006 may be
> from a Challenger as it has a passenger steam heat
> line.
>
> Bob

Doubtful. All 4000's had steam heat and air signal lines for
passenger service if needed.

HotWater Wrote:
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> But on the other hand, there is that 4005, just
> down the road in Denver, and it has been inside a
> building for a looooooonnng time.


The Forneys site has a pic on her side. Has info as well, I haven't been there yet. Just finished talking to a buddy that helped move her out to the new location.
He said it was the engine that was sold to a South American country to be run. Disassembled at Cheyenne for shipment (not sure how far). The deal fell through and they eventuallly put it back together and sent it to Denver. He says it was considered the best of remaining engines to date.
Evan, the engine/tender drawbar was cut in the fiasco getting it into Forneys site way back. Old head told them to put it in in two pieces and they didn't listen. It has been welded together since and came out in one piece during the move. I thought the frame/front engine had damage due to the move, and my buddy said no damage.
HotWater, she sat outside the whole time. Didn't get put inside until they moved to the new site.
Piston Rods were cut for the move in, but that can be fixed with a good machinist. Getting it from Forneys kid presents a whole new problem.

Now, after living in Cheyenne, there is no humidity to speak of. Why not do a inspection on the 04 and see how bad it really is? Does it have two piece journal boxes?? Dig in and see what is under the lagging. I think Cheyenne wanted it out of the park. Take it. Panel track it through town. Still seems shorter and cheaper than the California engine.Then after they finish the celebration, they still own the engine.
Or, better yet, drag it to Denver and trade Forneys. Win win situation.
Leave it coal. Just run it in the winter months, maybe fix that wye at Laramie with little bigger curves and keep is near Cheyenne. No more turning problems, no oil firing problems. No conversion costs. And they can get a little more mileage out of that costly overhaul.
I wonder if they could mock up some airpumps up high and paint Missabe on the tender and run up the Moffat once??

I don't care which one they pick, but it seems their own back yard has closer solutions.

Splish, splash, what a shame. And the water had receded from the top of the fence-level by the time I got there from Sterling, CO to help friends, note the waterline marks on the trees. Cheyenne, 8-3-1985. === === = === JLH



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/15/12 11:58 by highgreengraphics.

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