Steam & Excursion > Graham Claytor ran what??

4449? How did that go? What year and where did it happen? I don't think I have my locomotives, ur engineers mixed up...

Was this mentioned here somewhere else that I missed, because I'm not too sure that ever happened. I do believe that they let Bill Purdie fire it when they pulled the Southern Railway excursion in August of 1976.

Scott Gordon

I read that story a while back and IIRC, Bill Purdie said he'd "never run anything that far that fast without something bending, breaking or falling off." Viva 4449...The story went on to say that Mr.McCormack was back in the train at the time. I'm certain HotWater can confirm or deee-ny...

Cheers, Dave

Hillcrest Wrote:
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> I read that story a while back and IIRC, Bill
> Purdie said he'd "never run anything that far that
> fast without something bending, breaking or
> falling off." Viva 4449...The story went on to say
> that Mr.McCormack was back in the train at the
> time. I'm certain HotWater can confirm or
> deee-ny...
>
> Cheers, Dave


The 4449 is what convinced Mr. Purdie that 630, 722, 750 and 4501 would not be sufficient for the future of the steam program. 2-8-0s built in 1904, albeit modernized, would not pull the 20+ (mostly heavyweight) cars that would eventually be "normal".

flash34 Wrote:
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> Was this mentioned here somewhere else that I
> missed, because I'm not too sure that ever
> happened....

It happened. I rode the excursion that ran August 28-29, 1976 between Atlanta and Alexandria, VA, overnighting at Salisbury, NC. See Trains Magazine, November 1976, pp. 3-7 for an account. From page 7:

"On the last lap of the second day of the excursion, the GS-4 put on a huge burst of speed between Culpeper and Manassas. Va., bringing her long train up to 79.5 mph on the speedometer and 80 mph by certain stopwatches."

Just to be clear, I'm not disputing the trip or the speed, I'm just not sure Graham Claytor ever ran the engine.

Posted from iPhone

flash34 Wrote:
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> Just to be clear, I'm not disputing the trip or
> the speed, I'm just not sure Graham Claytor ever
> ran the engine.
>
> Posted from iPhone

The scuttlebutt was that he was up in the cab running. I can't recall if his brother was with him. That was the type of thing that Bob would do later with the 611. Yes, it would be nice to know exactly who was there and who was sitting in the right hand seat.

Chapter 7 of Steam's Camelot by Jim Wrinn (one of my favorite books by the way) has an account...

"On the segment north of Danville, Va., Claytor took his turn at the throttle. He liked the engine's ability to haul and move the heavy train effortlessly...

"...Claytor got off the train at Charlottesville so he could film the run, but he never caught up to the 4449 again..."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/27/13 09:54 by 5-String.

Go back to a 1976 issue of Trains Magazine and you'll find an account of the trip. The Claytor Brothers were a unique pair of people, and the last of their kind of top executives who were railfans at a time when it wasn't necessarily popular of high level executives to admit to it.For those of us around to ride and enjoy the Southern/ NS trips; we were a fortunate group.

ts1457 Wrote:
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> flash34 Wrote:
> I'm just not sure Graham Claytor ever ran the engine.

> The scuttlebutt was that he was up in the cab running.

I never heard that before, and it's pretty well established that Doyle McCormack was operating the locomotive during the fast running.

(From July 1977 TRAINS)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/27/13 07:30 by johnacraft.

---

If I remember it right, Doyle told a story of being somewhere back east, where an official of the railroad they were on with the 4449, asked how fast the locomotive would go. With the official's permission, Doyle took the train up to about 75 mph, where the official leaned over, put his hand on top of Doyle's and said that was just "fine" right there.

The question is, does it even really matter who was running the engine, as long as they were qualified to do so?

"From the right hand.." That's the story I read and am now apparently to old to remember it accurately...BTW, the "bend, break or fall off" quote belongs to Steve Lee.

Cheers, Dave

We certainly were!

mopacrr Wrote:
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> Go back to a 1976 issue of Trains Magazine and
> you'll find an account of the trip. The Claytor
> Brothers were a unique pair of people, and the
> last of their kind of top executives who were
> railfans at a time when it wasn't necessarily
> popular of high level executives to admit to
> it.For those of us around to ride and enjoy the
> Southern/ NS trips; we were a fortunate group.

Both Bob and Graham Claytor were unabashed steam lovers and thoroughly enjoyed time at the throttle. I had the pleasure of both of them being guest engineers on several of my locomotives over the years and they were always a pleasure to work with.

Let's be grateful that another steam fan has made it to the top at NS and let's hope that someday the same will happen at that other eastern class 1 with the odd non railroad name!!

Hope springs eternal.

Ross Rowland