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Steam & Excursion > Photo's from the Oregon Rail Heritage and Cheyenne Engine House


Date: 05/18/15 20:44
Photo's from the Oregon Rail Heritage and Cheyenne Engine House
Author: tehachapi-dave

My son TJ reported that I was in Cheyenne Saturday on an earlier thread so here are some photo's from the inside.  But first, as part of the business trip that placed me in Denver this weekend I needed to be in Portland OR last Tuesday for an ASME Committee meeting, Another member of the committee and mutual friend arranged a behind the scenes tour of the Oregon Rail Heritage Center with Doyle McCormack.  What a  week the SP4449, SP&S 700, UP 844 and UP 4014 all in five days, sometimes you just get lucky.  

To put this in prospective back in the mid 1970's I has a Reading Eagle pre-teen newspaper boy. I grew up 4 blocks from the Reading Shops so the first brass engine I bought with paper route money was a T1 (forgive me I didn't know any better) but the second was a Westside FEF-3 and since Lionel made a pretty good looking GS-4, my three favorite engines later I upgraded that to a Westside models. I bought every book etc I could find on the GS-4's and the Freedom Train.  As a kid I thought someday I got to see it in person.  A business trip in the early 1990,s put me in Portland and my first encounter in the roundhouse.  In 2009 we rode it from Michigan back to St Paul on the ferry move, now I had experienced her first hand from the dutch door and we finished the trip with little TJ, then 9, in the cab at St Paul. Now I would get to meet my childhood hero who has directed her operations for all of these years.

Put the Oregon Rail Heritage Center on your bucket list as it is a tremulous venue to see the engines.   We are talking about the 4449 and the next thing we are under the SP & S 700 in the drop table pit discussing how to finish the repairs as I work for Whiting who build the drop table.   Then we are back looking over the 4449.  The weld repairs are almost complete and they are working on the flues. We finish off the evening with climbing into the 190 to see how Doyle has rebuilt the 190 into the show piece it is today.  We saw it a Streamlines in Spencer now TJ and me are inside the 190.  The amount of work Doyle and his group have put into in this engine is incredible.  Everywhere you look there is new material in the engine. I have read about Doyle for many years but never met him, what a really nice guy.  He took time to answer our questions, made us feel welcome and really had an incredible few hours with him and the engines.

 
 








Date: 05/18/15 20:47
Re: Photo's from the Oregon Rail Heritage and Cheyenne Engine Hou
Author: tehachapi-dave

Additional Photo's from oregon








Date: 05/18/15 22:12
Re: Photo's from the Oregon Rail Heritage and Cheyenne Engine Hou
Author: tehachapi-dave

As I do not have time to watch soap operas during the day the saga of the UP Steam Shop nicely fills that need in my life for drama.  Just to start off a number of years ago UP was looking for a vendor to rebuild the Denver turntable and since I had directed the rebuild of the LIRR Morris Park and Conrail Oak Island tables UP contacted the company I was working for at the time to see if we would want to bid on the Denver work.  I knew Cheyenne had a working turntable so I asked my contact at UP if I could visit that shop to review its condition.  The behind the scenes plan was really to get to meet Steve Lee and the steam engines. The plan worked and we spent a very pleasant morning with Steve and the shop crew.  Took home a bunch of UP steam souvenirs I purchased and as Steve was in a roundabout way my customer I took him out for lunch at his favorite lunchtime restaurant. I brought my fellow railfan friend, who i stay at in the Denver area, as my assistant. I was impressed with Steve, like Doyle, are just really really nice guys.   

So I entered the shops Saturday morning on the first bus with a critical eye, could I possible, with my very limited knowledge of steam locomotives, possible find the situation better than reported in Trainorders, I hoped for this as I want to take TJ track side one day and see the 844 operating.  As we exited the bus Ed was there to kinda greet us.  He had the look of I'm the guy in charge here, something I had read about here on Trainorders and now got to see it in action, he instructed us to go inside and fill out the UP Release Form and then we could see the engines.  As we were near the front of the bus we were through the Release Line quickly and got over to the newest UP engine the FSF (Four Six Four) Hudson class engine under major repairs.  844 looked kinda funny as a really long 4-6-4.  Her cab is off as reported and she was striped to her boiler.  I learned they had recently laid out all the grid work to perform the ultrasound testing.  They has several of the shop guys behind a set of  workbench's covered in heavy white paper with different loco parts, one table was basically different stay bolt configurations with one of the guys explaining what they were.  What really surprised me was the crowd was not generally railfans and I found myself explaining to different people what they were looking out and I'm really basic here as when they were looking at the 844 and asking is this the Big Boy, or how does a steam engine work. Several our guys were around the engines answering questions and to the general public doing a pretty good job. Behind the second workbench was a very young guy who looked to be with the UP.  It turned out he is the new Shop Foreman. He has been at the shop about 5 years.  I did not get his name but he did impress me as being about the restoration of the engines and not about himself.  A lady asked him you are so young and he explain that four generations of his family has steam tractors and narrow gauge steam locomotives and he grew up with steam.  He had new locomotive springs on the table as well as a sample of the replacement running board they were planning to install on the 844.  The flat walking surface sample was plasma cut with the open tread pattern of the original and to that was riveted a T section to strengthen it, being a metal fabricator designer, it looked really nice.  He also had several different special bolts which were newly made to replace the existing bolts or pins holding the fourth driver in.  He explained that over the years the original ones had been beat up and that the threads were no longer the greatest.  This seen like a reasonable explanation to me as I'm an overhead crane engineer and certain high strength bolts are only good for one or two torquing.  I thought I would quiz him on the material they were made from.  He responded 4140 Quenched and Tempered. Based on the letter designation of the Q & T the strength and ductility will change so I asked him what did you use as you standard and be said he matched as close as possible to the UP Mechanical Standard the original was build to, again a reasonable explanation.

He also explained that all the effort is on the 844 and that getting the asbestos off the 4014 took a long time, that was complete and they were ordering parts for her.  Very little is off the 4014 but as you can see the 844 is naked.

What else did I see, overall the place was very neat and looked orderly, bolts were in bolt bins as you walked in from the north entrance etc. The Pizza pans were also proudly displayed as you entered.  Removing the drop ceiling really opened up the building, heating is certainly a question but now they have access to the overhead crane runways up there and the Foreman mentioned they were working on getting new overhead cranes so, I realize I'm a crane guy and a bit bias but every shop needs a crane to move material, while at Oregon Doyle asked me if Whiting could help get them a 10 ton crane, TVRM, Steamtown all have cranes. I asked if the fourth driver was at TVRM and one of the guys pointed over in the the main erection bay where it was sitting.  The new leader, Ed boss, looked a bit lost and looked happy to stand behind the Release Sign In Table.  Ed was moving about the building, but in the end he was really only directing the buses in and out of the north parking lot, maybe the "Peter Principle" is true and he has found his calling.

Enjoy the pictures and I look forward to everyone's comments, as I'm now in Chicago in a hotel currently I will be popping the pop corn now and enjoying the discussion.

Dave








Date: 05/18/15 22:15
Re: Photo's from the Oregon Rail Heritage and Cheyenne Engine Hou
Author: tehachapi-dave

From inside the 844 after CO2 blasting








Date: 05/18/15 22:20
Re: Photo's from the Oregon Rail Heritage and Cheyenne Engine Hou
Author: tehachapi-dave

More from the Shop, as you were very limited on where you could go getting pictures of the 4014 was difficult.








Date: 05/18/15 22:26
Re: Photo's from the Oregon Rail Heritage and Cheyenne Engine Hou
Author: tehachapi-dave

Thats it, enjoy, sorry about the 90 degree image.








Date: 05/19/15 04:49
Re: Photo's from the Oregon Rail Heritage and Cheyenne Engine Hou
Author: RGDave

Neat.  Thanks for posting this, nice to see something showing some sort of 'progress' in Cheyenne...they have a lot of work ahead of them.

~RGDave

 



Date: 05/19/15 09:42
Re: Photo's from the Oregon Rail Heritage and Cheyenne Engine Hou
Author: alco636

Great story and photos! I'm jealous! Thanks for sharing.

Al Seever
Phoenix, AZ



Date: 05/19/15 13:34
Re: Photo's from the Oregon Rail Heritage and Cheyenne Engine Hou
Author: ProAmtrak

RGDave Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neat.  Thanks for posting this, nice to see
> something showing some sort of 'progress' in
> Cheyenne...they have a lot of work ahead of them.
>
> ~RGDave
>
>  
A lot of work? As long as Ed's there, there's always gonna be a lot of work and hardly any action when it comes to getting the steamers running, count on it!



Date: 05/19/15 16:38
Photo Number 12
Author: Bob3985

Your 12th photo shows the burner and atomizer arrangement as it enters the firebox sheet. Great photos of their work.

Bob Krieger
Cheyenne, WY



Date: 05/19/15 17:07
Re: Photo Number 12
Author: Spoony81

Great pics but one correction. 844 is an FEF 4-8-4. I guess with one set of drivers out its a 4-6-4 temporarily ;-)

Posted from iPhone



Date: 05/19/15 19:36
Re: Photo Number 12
Author: tehachapi-dave

Yes FEF Four Eight Four or FSF Four Six Four.  I guess the joke was not that good.

Dave



Date: 05/19/15 19:46
Re: Photo Number 12
Author: Spoony81

tehachapi-dave Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes FEF Four Eight Four or FSF Four Six Four.  I
> guess the joke was not that good.
>
> Dave

I gotcha after I read it again :-)

Posted from iPhone



Date: 05/19/15 20:44
Re: Photo's from the Oregon Rail Heritage and Cheyenne Engine Hou
Author: jethat

Nice pictures! Your very fortunate to be able to take them!



Date: 05/20/15 11:05
Re: Photo's from the Oregon Rail Heritage and Cheyenne Engine Hou
Author: Realist

Nice report, but it brings up some more questions.

Why is time and money being spent on making new running boards?  Did the
old ones wear out?  Were they a safety hazard?

Why were all the staybolt caps removed? Were all the caps removed from 611 or 4449?

Where did the idea come from that there are specified torque values for bolts
on steam locomotives or the running gear?

Aside:  My Great grandfather was a fighter pilot during WWI.  That does not
make me qualified to work on a 787.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/20/15 14:15 by Realist.



Date: 05/20/15 15:33
Re: Photo's from the Oregon Rail Heritage and Cheyenne Engine Hou
Author: tehachapi-dave

In response to Realist kind words regarding my trip report.
  • Remaking of the running boards was said to be done as the boards in the past have been cut and re-welded many times.
  • No mention of why the stay-bolts were removed
  • As for the torquing of the bolts that appears to be a misunderstanding I started.  When you are dealing with ASTM A-325 high strength bolts the ASTM spec only allow torquing twice, when using A-490 it is only only and generally SAE Grade 8 bolts are not reused.  These are all high strength bolts which are made from materials similar to 4140 Q & T.  The key here is torquing the bolt to elongate it to prevent it from loosing.  I would assume that steam engines bolting is only made tight but not torqued to a specific valve so as to preclude the connection from loosing. Realist please comment on that as other methods to prevent loosing include lock washers and lock tight which would not elongate the bolt allowing its repeated reuse.
  • As another thought I heard more than once she will be better than the day she left ALCO in 1941

As for the aside I would suggest a more appropriate analogy would be repair of an WW I aircraft to that of a DC-8 as both are piston type aircraft



Date: 05/20/15 16:27
Re: Photo's from the Oregon Rail Heritage and Cheyenne Engine Hou
Author: Realist

tehachapi-dave Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>Remaking of the running boards was said to be
> done as the boards in the past have been cut and
> re-welded many times.

Really?  Did tey have pieces of the old ones to prove that?
Or is tis more cosmetic work.

> No mention of why the stay-bolts were removed.
The bolts are still tere.  The heads are plainly visible. 
  • >
  • As for the torquing of the bolts that appears
    > to be a misunderstanding I started.  When you are
    > dealing with ASTM A-325 high strength bolts the
    > ASTM spec only allow torquing twice, when using
    > A-490 it is only only and generally SAE Grade 8
    > bolts are not reused.  These are all high
    > strength bolts which are made from materials
    > similar to 4140 Q & T.  The key here is torquing
    > the bolt to elongate it to prevent it from
    > loosing.  I would assume that steam engines
    > bolting is only made tight but not torqued to a
    > specific valve so as to preclude the connection
    > from loosing. Realist please comment on that as
    > other methods to prevent loosing include lock
    > washers and lock tight which would not elongate
    > the bolt allowing its repeated reuse.
To begin with, they are studs, not bolts. Grade 8 or similar material is
not used in this application, as it is too brittle.  Washers and lockwashers
are used, and the nuts are checked for tightness any time the underside
of the locomotive is inspected, which is VERY frequently. 
  •  
  • As another thought I heard more than once she
    > will be better than the day she left ALCO in 1941.
That shouldnt be too difficult, since she left Alco in December, 1944.
  •  
  •  

  • >
    >
    > As for the aside I would suggest a more
    > appropriate analogy would be repair of an WW I
    > aircraft to that of a DC-8 as both are piston type
    > aircraft

    Either way, the point is that just because a person has relatives
  • who saw one go by once doesn't make them qualified to work
  • on one.



Date: 05/20/15 18:04
Re: Photo's from the Oregon Rail Heritage and Cheyenne Engine Hou
Author: nycman

I hate these discussions and especially correcting someone.  Here I go.  DC-8 is a jet.   I suspect you meant DC-6 or 7.



Date: 05/20/15 19:42
Re: Photo's from the Oregon Rail Heritage and Cheyenne Engine Hou
Author: tehachapi-dave

Correct DC 6 or 7, I should stay away from airplane discussions.

Realist, 

Speaking of being brittle, depending on how you order 4140 Q & T it can be brittle.  On overhead cranes we like to use material with at least 15% elongation meaning it is not brittle.  Depending on how you order 4140 Q & T in can be quite brittle but very strong.  I hope they are ordering based on elongation and not strength as it sounds like the "Studs" need to be ductile.  

Dave



Date: 05/20/15 21:05
Re: Photo's from the Oregon Rail Heritage and Cheyenne Engine Hou
Author: Realist

tehachapi-dave Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Correct DC 6 or 7, I should stay away from
> airplane discussions.
>
> Realist, 
>
> Speaking of being brittle, depending on how you
> order 4140 Q & T it can be brittle.  On overhead
> cranes we like to use material with at least 15%
> elongation meaning it is not brittle.  Depending
> on how you order 4140 Q & T in can be quite
> brittle but very strong.  I hope they are
> ordering based on elongation and not strength as
> it sounds like the "Studs" need to be ductile.  
>
> Dave

The real question is why are they doing it in the first place. Just like the caps, they have no valid reason to be messing with that, though they will be happy to give you a lot of serious-sounding chin music about it.



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