Steam & Excursion > Story not related to original subject title, below

The following was inspired by a comment in an earlier thread re: 4449.
But, I felt easterners might be interested The the 'rest of the story'......

I'll see if I can add the original lead thread, it's fascinating...

​NKP 759 conquers PRR's Horseshoe Curve

"wcamp1472 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> [Attempt to revise and correct typos in
> original...]
>
>
> Hi, Sierrawetern....
>
> I am Wes Camp.
> I had the great fortune to have become one of the
> key people that worked on the HICO loco team.
> Ross was dynamic leader who supported us in our
> errors and encouraged us to reach heights that we
> didn't think we had in us.
> One of the highlights of that friendship was
> firing for Ross, two trips up Horseshoe....
>
> Here's some background about what was some
> background stories relating to your memory....
>
> These are my memories, Ross has his experiences,
> so these are solely my memories....
>
> A couple of months prior to the Horseshoe
> Excursions, Ross had arranged field meetings with
> the PennCentral managers in Harrisburg and
> Altoona, two separate divisions.  We met with PC
> Raod Foremen and the Division Superintendents. 
> Ross and I rode the diesel cab of a PC passenger
> train, partly as an orientation of the right of
> way, and a way to scout out the route.
>
> We met with the Harrisburg PC local officers, rode
> the train to Altoona, and met with the Division
> officers in Altoona.
> PENNA had 'blue laws' backthen and public bars
> were closed---- it might have been a Sunday....
> The two groups repaired to the local Elks Club,
> for dinner and drinks, varied types and alcohol
> was sold, since it was a private club.
> During this meeting, both sides warmed to each
> other, as the dinner meeting progressed.
>
> I was talking to the experienced road crews about
> the hill, while Ross was schmoozing the
> higher-ups.....
> Years later, Ross told me that the Superintendent
> was adamant about dragging the 759 and Its train
> up the hill.
> So, that there would be NO CHANCE of a "road
> failure"  & resulting in delaying the other
> traffic on the main that day.
>
> Ross, negotiated a concession by getting the
> diesels moved to the rear of the train, and
> shoving.
> Later, Ross made a wager with the the
> Superintendent, that the 759 could do the the Hill
> unassisted.
> The wager involved a substantial cash amount.
>  That led Ross to propose that the diesel helpers
> stay back, and in case of a failure, the delay to
> other operations would be mitigated ----- since
> the helpers were close enough to be employed, if
> needed.
>
> My guess is that the men respected each other,
> made a handshake and, thus, that agreement is what
> resulted during those trips.
> 759, all by herself & the diesels a mile back....
>
> It was during that dinner, that the Road Foreman,
> whose name I forgot, told me about the 'physics'
> of the hill & the Curve.
> He told me that about a half mile before entering
> the curve, west of Altoona, is a creek that
> crosses under the Main.
> He called it 'Scotch Run'.   He said that point
> was the hardest part of the whole hill; if you get
> past Scotch Run, you will make the rest of the
> Hill --- all the way to Gallitzin, in good shape.
>
> Soooo,  fast forward to September and the first
> day's assault of Horseshoe.  
> The trip up from Harrisburg went well....
> Ross and I went to the cab, the PC officers and
> crew were also there, including my friend, the
> Road Foreman who rode behind me as we
> departed.....He and the other PC members did the
> signal verifications, etc. as we marched up the
> Hill.
>
> Its flat for about half a mile when you leave the
> Altoona Station, then the grade very visibly
> rises.   Ross really pounded the 759 as hard as
> he could, trying to get a good start and run at
> the Hill.  As I recall, we got the speed up to
> about 23 to 25 MPH.  As each trailing coach was
> dragged onto the grade, the train perceptibly
> slowed down.
>
> Ross became alarmed, and as the 759 continued to
> lose speed, Ross placed his left hand on the
> Automatic brake handle, just in case....Right hand
> on the wide open throttle...... 
>
> I crossed the cab, and told Ross to take his hand
> off the brake, we were going to MAKE IT, & we
> would be O.K......
> Ross refocused, and concentrated on the task at
> hand....drive the train, and get to the top....
>
> Several NKP fireman in ' 69 & '69, had taiught me
> the importance of carrying a really deep 'heel'
> ----- in the back of the firebox..
> The heavy draft up the rear firebox sheet, burns
> the coal rapidly  down to bare gates....So to
> combat that reality, carry a very heavy heel in
> the back.   That mass of coal weight forces the
> larger portion of the draft up through the
> remaining 80% ---- which remains thin
> and free-breathing -------- is where the hot,
> 3,000 deg. F. fire is its hottest.  A thin, hot
> firebed is what makes the hottest fire and most
> steam
>
> So, once the heel is built, simply keeping a
> steady flow of coal going to the thin part of the
> fire.--- much of the fines burn in mid-air, almost
> like an oil burner.... 
>
> With a furious heavy draft, and a low driver RPM,
> making copious amounts of steam is very easy with
> a huge grate, like the 759 was built with.
>
> So, as we thundered up the hill, our speed sank to
> a steady pace of 11 MPH,  and stayed there...the
> draft was immense, the heel,was rapidly burning
> down ----- several times during that assault i had
> to reduce the stoker jet pressure, and roll-in
> more coal on top of the big heel ----- since there
> is always air try to rush up the door sheet .
>  Under such continuous pounding that is what
> happens.   On, we slogged, at a steady 11MPH, we
> soon approached Scithc Run, we pounded right on
> by, at a steady 11 MPH pace....
>
> Soon, we entered the region of the main part of
> the Horseshoe Curve. There was an immense crowd
> waiting, and I decided to put the safeties up,
> going around the crowd.....all the folks crowd
> instinctively understand the importance of safety
> valves and what it means when  the safeties are
> roaring ..... Thus,  I determined to get all
> three of the safeties UP, as we went by the crowd.
>  
> I had the draft, I had the fire, plenty of water,
> a strong water pump, and I had Ross!
>
> As, we continued on around the 'Curve, upwards
> towards MG Tower, I turned my hat around
> backwards, increased my concentration and soon I
> turned around to ask the Road Foreman:   " Let me
> know when we get to Scotch Run! "......
> He grinned at the irony....we were about 3 miles
> past it,  up the Hill....
>
> There's more...but I wanted to get this out...
>
> ENJOY."
>
> ​W.
>
>
> Not proofed, yet..2150 hrs....
>
>  

Great story Wes. In case I missed it, how many cars?
​
​Victor A. Baird
http://www.erstwhilepublications.com



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/17 18:43 by wabash2800.

I don't have a strong memory, others probably can fill us in,  
 My memory is  in the vicinity of 20, 21 cars.... heavyweights included...
We calculated train consists based on tractive efforts .....so that we'd avoid setting up a 'stall' condition......

Let's see what the responses are......

​W.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/17 18:38 by wcamp1472.

Almost sounds like the first time I ran 1522 on a main line.  It was the 90 NRHS convention in St. Louis and we did a round trip to Newburg, MO on the old Frisco and back to STL.   Rolla Hill right out of Newburg is the eastbound ruling grade and near the top is Coleman's Cut.  If you get by there, you have it made.  Our train was over the tonnage limit for Frisco 1500s on Rolla Hill according to the old employee timetables.
I had about a mile to get up to speed, 35MPH, before hitting the foot of the hill.  Our speed drug down and down to 12MPH and the old gal settled in at that speed and dropped to 11 at Coleman's Cut.  We had it made.  The fireman was able to keep her right on 210PSI with a clean stack all the way up.  I kept my hand on the throttle fearing the worst.  Never missed a beat.
I was really proud of the old gal and the exhaust was incredible all the way up.
My Baptism under fire.

Wes -  many thanks for posting this!  That Saturday trip in September, either the 12th or 13th, still ranks as the BEST steam fantrip that I have ever been on.   Nothing since has ever comparied to it.  You might also remember that some passengers got left behind in Altoona and the PC ran a special train to take them up to Gallitzin.  I also remember getting back to Harrisburg AHEAD of schedule!!

Thanks for the memories!

Ron

This was a great read. I was there while reading it. Thank you!

Did the RFE ever say how the term Scotch Run came about?  Every location on the railroad thats not  in the timetable and even some in the timeetable usually have a story behind it.  

Wes,
Great memories. My friends and I chased on Saturday and rode on Sunday. These are my photos taken, on Saturday, with my grandfather's camera. His name was Charles Rowland, no relation to Ross. He had made the trip out west and back the year before on the GSCL.
It was awesome to witness this event from both trackside and on board. there was a closer shot of the 759 on the upper part of the curve but it was lost over the years.

Doug Rowland
Philadelphia, PA

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---

One of the first recordings I ever bought was the 759 on Horseshoe Curve...the second was 759 on the N&W. Now, occasionally, I work on her sister...

Re: mopacrr...
'Scotch Run....'

GREAT question!

In the distant past, I had wondered about that name.  And I had done a little research....
I did find topo maps and RR maps, ------ the name  in the maps for that stream IS a Scottish Name, but it is not titled 'Scotch Run'.

But, like a lot of RR folklore, things, like names, get changed and modified, over time.
But, if you find it on maps, it'll have a Scottish name....

Its a stream, on the first, hard-right turn as you enter the area, heading "RR West".  
In older pictures there had been a Station, midway, between that curve and the Horseshoe, proper.

​W.

 



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/18/17 15:57 by wcamp1472.

Thanks, Doug...

Picture two is great, there's NO QUESTION about the boiler pressure!
She tended to dig-in, at the higher pressure.....I think pop #3 lifts at about 255 PSI....( rated pressure was 245, if I remember right...).

ALL three are up!!!

​W.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/18/17 16:05 by wcamp1472.

Scotch Gap Run crosses under the PRR main about half a mile east of the apex of Horseshoe Curve. The reservoir dam nearest the creek is called Scotch Run Dam.

Posted from iPhone

Sooooo...
There IS a 'Scotch Run'...

Very interesting.
Thnks for the update...we're getting closer...

​W.

wcamp1472 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sooooo...
> There IS a 'Scotch Run'...
>
> Very interesting.
> Thnks for the update...we're getting closer...
>
> ​W.

It is easy Wes....it is where the locals made Scotch!

Posted from iPhone

I don't think my good friend John B. Corns would mind if I posted one of his 759 photos here. It is THE picture to illustrate this story!

• 759 is at the Apex of Horsehoe Curve.
• The rods are down.
• The stack is a massive volumn of steam and smoke.
• The throttle is wide open.
• The reverse gear is all the way down in the corner.
• TWO of the three pops are lifted!

Oh my!


 

---

AND NO DOUBT ABOUT IT !!!!

​W.