Steam & Excursion > Practices concerning open and closed knuckles...

In my experience, related to switching yards, it was possible that that pivot pins, retaining the knuckle, could become missing, and when rolling through retarders, with car knuckles open, it was possible that knuckles wall fall to the ground. In other cases falling knuckles have caused very serious damage and injuries to trainmen.

However, brakemen on the top of the hump, typically operated the uncoupling lever of the car behind the one rolling away
The falling knuckle was in the rare cases of broken, missing knuckle pins.

Sometimes, cars that had been sent through rotary car dumper had missing knuckle pins.....most cars subject to exposure to rotary dumpers use cotters in the bottom of the knuckle pins.

There is also the distinction between the knuckle pin AND the knuckle-locking linkage, or locking pin, in the base of the coupler housing.
These pieces, can be propped open [ using the uncoupling levers] allowing the knuckle to freely open [ later] as in the case of slowly 'cutting cars' from each other, in hump yards or in flat switching.

Hopefully, upon receiving a mating knuckle from an intended car to be attached, the 'prop' gets knocked out, the the locking mechanism drops into place ----- holding the 'thumb' of the knuckle in locked position. That locking assembly is commonly referred to as ' the pin'.
As in, after a particularly hard impact, the question was radioed: " Do you think the PIN dropped?"

It was also common that the pin DID NOT drop, and thus it became necessary, in passenger service especially, to 'try' the coupling ---- by pulling on the coupled cars...As in: the radio-call: "Give 'em a STRETCH! "

Often times, it took several ttries to get a secure coupling.

On steamers built with screw-operated valve gears ( either manual screw reverses, or
power-assisted screw reverses [ as in Franklin 'Precision ' design --- without air-motor operators] ) , such ' missed couplings were a real " pain-in-the-assets" of the poor over-worked arm of the engineer, as he cranked from full forward, to full reverse, to full forward ( for a second try) , Then, had to crank in full reverse to get the stretch, which, if tight' meant cranking, again to allow the knuckle on the separating car top open... several missed couplings, and the distress level in the cab became palpable....

Other stories abound, regarding coupling practices, adventures and lessons-learned...some, painful.....

W.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/20/17 04:16 by wcamp1472.

An automatic "car coupler", by definition, is just that; it automatically makes a coupling when the cars are shoved together (assuming of course proper alignment and that one or both knuckles have been opened beforehand). Ever since the 1890s, it has been required, by the AAR and predecessors, that lifting the cutting lever will cause the knuckle to open. With type D, E, F, H, etc, couplers, all the knuckle pin does is keep the knuckle from falling out of the coupler when it is open.

>These pieces, can be propped open [ using the uncoupling levers] allowing the knuckle to freely open [ later] as in the case of slowly 'cutting cars' from each other, in hump yards or in flat switching.

Not if the pin lifting mechanism is worn beyond a certain point, in which case you have to hold the cutting lever all the way up until the cars part. On the SP we used to call this "a lonesome pin" because it wouldn't stay up unless you "held it's hand". The very early deigns of Janney couplers had to have the cutting lever held up manually until the knuckle opened because they had no knuckle throwing mechanisms.

>Hopefully, upon receiving a mating knuckle from an intended car to be attached, the 'prop' gets knocked out, the the locking mechanism drops into place ----- holding the 'thumb' of the knuckle in locked position.

I've always read that the "thumb" is the horn projection opposite the knuckle pin, and the knuckle represents the your fingers, which pivot around the first joints in your hand.

>On steamers built with screw-operated valve gears ( either manual screw reverses, or
power-assisted screw reverses [ as in Franklin 'Precision ' design --- without air-motor operators] ) , such ' missed couplings were a real " pain-in-the-assets" of the poor over-worked arm of the engineer, as he cranked from full forward, to full reverse, to full forward ( for a second try) , Then, had to crank in full reverse to get the stretch, which, if tight' meant cranking, again to allow the knuckle on the separating car top open... several missed couplings, and the distress level in the cab became palpable....

You could always tell a whether a yard engineer had worked steam, because he would generally make a coupling just hard enough to self stretch, the avoiding horsing the Johnson bar over and back.

EtoinShrdlu Wrote:
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"You could always tell a whether a yard engineer had worked steam, because he would generally make a coupling just hard enough to self stretch, the avoiding horsing the Johnson bar over and back."


Good observation! It takes just the right combination of coupling speed and independent brake to make this happen. It works fine on freight equipment and I've done it many times switching freight cars with diesel power on the Ohio Central.

But you can't do this on passenger equipment. You have to hit the coupling just a bit too hard and stop too fast for this "self-stretch" to work on passenger cars. Can't spill the drinks in First Class, you know! ;-)

Back in the day, some 'Roads required trainmen to bring a loco, handling passenger equipment, to make a complete STOP , about 10 feet shy of the standing equipment, and then it could be brought-in for the 'coupling'.

There were many separate pieces of equipment and apparatus that joined the passenger cars....like: the diaphragms, rigid steam lines, air signal lines, buffer plates and walkways. That had to be verified that there were no misaligned mating components.

Stiff diaphragm springs, buffer springs, etc. complicated getting the knuckle couplers to lock together in one 'try', after the mandatory stop.

Because p, if things like steam lines (which DO NOT uncouple by simply pulling apart) the 'stretch' test is VITAL before the carmen enter between the cars to lock the two steam limes together. Failure to test the 'stretch', could lead to the steam lines being rigidly coupled, than upon departure, the non-locked coupling would separate and rip the steam lines 'out-by-the-roots" ... Damaging TWO cars, that then requires several days of repairs to each damaged car.
Not to mention the inconvenience of two cars of passengers that had to be handled relocated, re-established in the comparable accommodations that had to vacate...

Taking great care and careful procedures to making the switching moves with passenger cars a very delicate and precise procedure.
Hot steam lines in winter, are no fun either .....

I have the highest respect and greatest wonder at the professional ways that passenger crews worked so well together --- with the ground forces, the 'towers' and train crews . Many times during the HayDays of great passenger service, these workers made hundreds of switching moves to occupied cars and timetabled trains.

It's still amazing to visualize the swarms of folks it took to smoothly operate the large, bustling terminals, like: St. Louis, NYCity's Penn Station & GCT, like Washington's Union Station, Boston's, big station Cleveland Union Terminal, Kansas City, Los Angeles, San Fran, and SO MANY other terminals and junction points....
All done under all kinds of weather, all kinds of problems and all kinds of people.....still the trains arrived and departed On Time, most of the time....

Being young today, you have NO IDEA what 24-hour Passenger Operations were all about....
So much is lost.

Wes

It is a safety violation to step in gage to reach over to hand pull open a knuckle. It is unbelievable how many trainman do not know how to open a knuckle using the cutting lever as they try to pull it 90 degree in one movement. The proper way is to pull the lever 45 degrees to point to hear the anti-creeper click, and then make the pull to complete the 90 degrees and that movement on the cutting lever will snap the knuckle open. If it is a defective coupler, then 3 point protection is asked and received to then step in to adjust the coupler and open the knuckle. It is a two step movement of the cutting lever to open a knuckle, and not a single 90 degree pull. I've even seen car foreman giving a training class that didn't know a coupler was designed to be opened in that snap open manner.

It's not a safety violation if you do it while having protection, red zone, three step, etc.

On a lot of cars you have to do the one motion yank of the cut lever to get the knuckle open, and it's usually quicker too.

Posted from Android

wcamp1472 Wrote:
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"...some 'Roads required trainmen to bring a loco, handling passenger equipment, to make a complete STOP , about 10 feet shy of the standing equipment, and then it could be brought-in for the 'coupling'."

---

That rule is still on the books.

The railroad I work on requires that a "Safety Stop Before Coupling" be made when the equipment is between 5 and 20 feet from the tie. The stated purpose is "...to prevent a hard coupling and to determine coupler alignment."

From that short distance ya can't hit 'em hard enough to do the "self stretch" move mentioned above. Then again, that's the whole point of the excercise...

Re: knuckle throwers ...

Yes,

In fact of the simple components that make up today's devices, include a piece called "the knuckle thrower". Who's purpose is to do just THAT...
Remotely, opening the knuckle using only the cut-lever ...


W.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/20/17 17:38 by wcamp1472.

That rule is not in my class ones rule book. Thankfully. Unfortunately they do ask that we stretch all joints, but that can be handled easily by some creative radio chatter.

Rich_Melvin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> wcamp1472 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> "...some 'Roads required trainmen to bring a loco,
> handling passenger equipment, to make a complete
> STOP , about 10 feet shy of the standing
> equipment, and then it could be brought-in for the
> 'coupling'."
>
> That rule is still on the books.
>
> The railroad I work on requires that a "Safety
> Stop Before Coupling" be made when the equipment
> is between 5 and 20 feet from the tie. The stated
> purpose is "...to prevent a hard coupling and to
> determine coupler alignment."
>
> From that short distance ya can't hit 'em hard
> enough to do the "self stretch" move mentioned
> above. Then again, that's the whole point of the
> excercise...

Posted from Android

Pleases notice that the "qualifying terms": "When handling passenger equipment".... limits the discussion to ONLY passenger-related cars, or those cars connected to, or with passenger cars.

Since Amtrak started, May 1971, many railroads ceased 'handling' passenger trains; thus, many of today's rule books do not apply to passenger trains.
So, owner's & operators of passenger trains today, have to be keenly aware to protect their equipment from the freight-bashers when traveling over the many varied railroads.

I'm sure that many members of ARPCOA , who are passenger car owners, can tell many horrifying stories of their cars being damaged by tremendous impacts suffered at the hands of untrained, unconcerned freight crews...

So, please, always stop short of direct coupling, and then come to a coupling slowly. Do not' kick' passenger cars into standing equipment, or allow free-rolling equipment to be sent into passenger cars. "Shove to a rest", is a cautious way to always approach handling passenger cars..

Wes.

I didn't see the quote in the first part of Rich's post, but if I am handling any passenger equipment I am extremely careful and do everything I can to treat them gentle. I'll bang around mostly everything else, but dead engines and especially passenger equipment gets white gloves.

I'm probably one of the few class 1 guys that would even notice.

Posted from Android

As one who rode long distance passenger trains in the steam era, which required extensive switching frequently during their run, I am, as I was then, hugely impressed with the skill and care switch crews displayed in their work. The trains and cars being switched were occupied. Every move was not just gentile, but quick and efficient. I'd guess that steam and air lines were left unconnected during moves until the entire train was intact, but that is just a guess. If those lines were connected for each move, then the efficiency with which this all the more impressive. They would switch in/out 10 or more cars, AND change the power in the time Amtrak now takes to add/subtract ONE car, about one hour.
AA

Stanford White
Carmel Valley, CA

AA,

Probably they connected the trainline air hoses.....on passenger equipment , here was no way release the air in the brake cylinders, once the air was dumped.

So handling "with air" was extra steps....steam lines would be left disconnected ( as they were separated) until the train was made complete, along with the air signal line etc. it was easier to get the steam lines connected with the air lines down, & out of the way.....

But, yes the crews' moves and synchronization was really impressive, especially in busy large terminals...24/7/365

I imagine that the work during the WW2 years was UNBELIEVABLE ....

Probably another wrinkle was handling trains that had occupied RPOs in the consist. Wow!

Wes.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/17 17:25 by wcamp1472.

> Probably they connected the trainline air hoses.....on passenger equipment , here was no way release the air in the brake cylinders, once the air was dumped.

Au contraire, mon ami, there most certainly is a way to do this.

>Probably another wrinkle was handling trains that had occupied RPOs in the consist.

No different than handling occupied passenger cars. Unoccupied passenger cars, hwever, were another story. With the right crew (and yard terrain), you could kick and drop them. BTDT many times . . . back in them days.

EtoinShrdlu Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> You could always tell a whether a yard engineer
> had worked steam, because he would generally make
> a coupling just hard enough to self stretch, the
> avoiding horsing the Johnson bar over and back.


If only that was still sufficient. If you see the joint stretched, shouldn't that be enough?!!