Steam & Excursion > How Misleading is Project C&O 1309?

I know many in the Trainorders community do not like Facebook and some do not like to use it at all. However, it can be a useful tool for promoting our hobby and interests if utilized correctly. However, it can also have its downsides. Recently there has been a lot of discussion surrounding the restoration of C&O 1309 at the Western Maryland Scenic Railroad. "How Misleading is Project C&O 1309?" is a Facebook page that claims to be run by former WMSR employees. Most of the posts contain information lacking attributable sources. I contacted the moderator of the page but didn't get much in the way of verifiable information as to who they were. I was trying to ascertain who the person was running the group and why they seem to have a vendetta against the railroad. This was met with the response that I must work for the railroad and that I am a troll. Long story short I would take anything posted there with a large grain of salt. Secondly, does anyone here know who the person is that runs the page? They claim to be a former volunteer with "over 30,000 hours of service" to the railroad.

Whoever it is seems dead set on harming the railroad.


Posted from iPhone



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/20/17 05:50 by Buttons2013.

This issue was discussed a few days ago. Check out the comments on the lower half of this post.

https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?10,4291731

Buttons2013 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I know many in the Trainorders community do not
> like Facebook and some do not like to use it at
> all. However, it can be a useful tool for
> promoting our hobby and interests if utilized
> correctly. However, it can also have its
> downsides. Recently there has been a lot of
> discussion surrounding the restoration of C&O 1309
> at the Western Maryland Scenic Railroad. "How
> Misleading is Project C&O 1309?" is a Facebook
> page that claims to be run by former WMSR
> employees. Most of the posts contain information
> lacking attributable sources. I contacted the
> moderator of the page but didn't get much in the
> way of verifiable information as to who they were.
> I was trying to ascertain who the person was
> running the group and why they seem to have a
> vendetta against the railroad. This was met with
> the response that I must work for the railroad and
> that I am a troll. Long story short I would take
> anything posted there with a large grain of salt.
> Secondly, does anyone here know who the person is
> that runs the page? They claim to be a former
> volunteer with "over 30,000 hours of service" to
> the railroad.
>
> Whoever it is seems dead set on harming the
> railroad.

Try Googling a Mr. Leonard Shaner, jr. As has been already mentioned here on TO, he is apparently a REAL piece of work. Also, for what it's work, the Western Maryland Scenic has also "let go" Mr. John P. Hankey, and THAT is a great loss, in my opinion.

Wow 30,000? That's just under 15 years if one went in every day based on a 40 hour work week.

The page is connected to a railfan in Pennsylvania (who I won't name here) that will launch a derogatory facebook page against any outfit that he feels wronged by. There's one on the Colebrookdale RR, the Allentown & Auburn, a fake CNJ 113 page and many other's I'm missing. They can all be connected by observing their dubious logic and atrocious spelling. In the case of the 1309, it seems he has a "partner".

Facebook can be a powerful tool in the right hands. In the hands of an idiot, well, this is what you get. A wise person once told me "When the only tool in your toolbox is a hammer, all your problems look like nails".

I don't do Facebook nor Twitter and just this week joined Linked In under pressure from my business associate who feel it's mandatory in today's world. I hope I don't regret it?

As to the WMSR efforts on the 1309 I visited the project on Jan. 17th. this year as the guest of Mr. John Hankey who was then one of the principle sponsors. I also hosted a supper the evening of Jan. 16th. for Mr. Hankey, Mr. John Garner the new CEO of the WMSR, Kevin Rice the CMO and other key members of the restoration team.

I was very impressed with the collective knowledge and energy of the team and my visit to the shop impressed me with the quality of the work being done and its thoroughness. I also felt that they were making a BIG mistake in committing to completion dates with a TON of work still to do.

I attempted to make an online donation earlier this week and found the WMSR Foundation page inoperable. I wrote to Mr. Garner and he replied that the page was under construction and to mail my check to the railroad in Cumberland which I did.

I have just learned that Mr. Hankey was " invited" to leave the project several months ago and that the lady who had been doing a very good job heading up the WMSR Foundation has also left as have a good number of volunteers.

While the grammar errors point strongly to Mr. Shaner as the culprit behind the negative Facebook page it could well be some other disgruntled player as there seems to have been many that have departed on less than good terms lately??

I sure hope Mr. Garner knows what he's doing as it would be a shame if human dynamics caused this effort to implode.

The good news is that it is my understanding that some of the states 400k grant monies have now arrived and some boiler work has resumed.

IMHO they've still got a long ways to go before the 1309 is ready to be a reliable engine and I think they're making a mistake selling tickets for events this fall. That's just my opinion from being involved in a number of similar rodeos. I hope they prove me wrong but never forget Dante Porta's # 1 law....." All steam locomotive restorations cost more and take longer than ANYONE estimated".

That's all I know. Ross Rowland

Bridge60 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wow 30,000? That's just under 15 years if one
> went in every day based on a 40 hour work week.
>
> The page is connected to a railfan in Pennsylvania
> (who I won't name here) that will launch a
> derogatory facebook page against any outfit that
> he feels wronged by. There's one on the
> Colebrookdale RR, the Allentown & Auburn, a fake
> CNJ 113 page and many other's I'm missing. They
> can all be connected by observing their dubious
> logic and atrocious spelling. In the case of the
> 1309, it seems he has a "partner".



He better be careful what he's posting on the facebook pages he creates against every outfit that he feels "wronged" by. Next thing he'll know someone will come to either his job ( provided he has one ) or his residence and say "You've been served." Defamation of character or slander could cost him dearly in court. Whoever this guy is, he's not a smart man.

I seem to recall a long, painful running battle on RYPN over a Pennsy locomotive submerged in a quarry. I think someone was invited to leave the forum. Very childish behavior. I think the individual also was involved in D&LW 565 at Scranton.
You have the right to remain silent, but some folks can't do that.

Never having heard of this guy, I did a little research. While it does seem this guy probably is a menace to society, some of the internet things done to mock him seem to be just about as childish and in poor taste as what they accuse him of, and better be true, or they would likely make very good lawsuit fodder. I seem to remember a saying about having a battle of whits with an unarmed man. It would seem Mr Shaner might indeed be unarmed and probably needs our pity more than our contempt.

Exactly how can you sell tickets for something that isn't a sure thing? Or at least as sure as a steam locomotive can be. I personally know several from Europe who have already purchased their overseas air for the TRAINS sponsored photo event in September. They did this based on the event being sold out thinking they wouldn't sell something if it was "iffy." So is WM Scenic going to pay for their non-refundable air? I doubt it. Buyer be ware I guess. However, soon others who want to travel to the event including myself will need to buy their transportation before it is either sold out or the fares through the roof. Sounds like someone in marketing really jumped the gun.

andersonb109 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Exactly how can you sell tickets for something
> that isn't a sure thing? Or at least as sure as a
> steam locomotive can be. I personally know several
> from Europe who have already purchased their
> overseas air for the TRAINS sponsored photo event
> in September. They did this based on the event
> being sold out thinking they wouldn't sell
> something if it was "iffy." So is WM Scenic going
> to pay for their non-refundable air? I doubt it.
> Buyer be ware I guess. However, soon others who
> want to travel to the event including myself will
> need to buy their transportation before it is
> either sold out or the fares through the roof.
> Sounds like someone in marketing really jumped the
> gun.

You want flexibility? Buy a full fare ticket. You can get a full refund up to first flight date, and later buy a cheapo once the event is confirmed a go.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/20/17 08:43 by PERichardson.

Bridge60 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wow 30,000? That's just under 15 years if one
> went in every day based on a 40 hour work week.
>
> The page is connected to a railfan in Pennsylvania
> (who I won't name here) that will launch a
> derogatory facebook page against any outfit that
> he feels wronged by. There's one on the
> Colebrookdale RR, the Allentown & Auburn, a fake
> CNJ 113 page and many other's I'm missing. They
> can all be connected by observing their dubious
> logic and atrocious spelling. In the case of the
> 1309, it seems he has a "partner".
>
> Facebook can be a powerful tool in the right
> hands. In the hands of an idiot, well, this is
> what you get. A wise person once told me "When
> the only tool in your toolbox is a hammer, all
> your problems look like nails".

Posted from Android

Doug Wetherhold
Macungie, PA

I had Mrs. 630 looking for the anti Allentown & Auburn page but no luck. Can you provide a link or title or whatever Facespace calls it? I would like to read the nonsense.


Bridge60 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wow 30,000? That's just under 15 years if one
> went in every day based on a 40 hour work week.
>
> The page is connected to a railfan in Pennsylvania
> (who I won't name here) that will launch a
> derogatory facebook page against any outfit that
> he feels wronged by. There's one on the
> Colebrookdale RR, the Allentown & Auburn, a fake
> CNJ 113 page and many other's I'm missing. They
> can all be connected by observing their dubious
> logic and atrocious spelling. In the case of the
> 1309, it seems he has a "partner".
>
> Facebook can be a powerful tool in the right
> hands. In the hands of an idiot, well, this is
> what you get. A wise person once told me "When
> the only tool in your toolbox is a hammer, all
> your problems look like nails".

Posted from Android

Doug Wetherhold
Macungie, PA

Sounds like the old people challenge. When I was a manager it was clear that getting different kinds of folks to work together was the hardest part of management. And it was not uncommon for folks with conflicting personalities to have very complimentary skills, so working together was critical. It is no different in the world of preserved steam. And managing volunteers is even worse, like herding cats. Now the internet has provided a whole new platform for, shall we say self-expression, making the whole process that much more complicated. This problem permeates the steam preservation community, and the magnitude of the 1309 project makes it a real challenge. As one who bought a ticket for the November outing I am watching with considerable attention. But I am less concerned about whether it runs in September or November than that it just runs, hopefully while I am still spry enough to ride and chase it. I enjoyed reading co614's post, and I share junctiontower's thoughts about both Mr. Shaner and those who write about him....they seem to be cut from the same sad cloth.

JBWX



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 05/20/17 22:41 by jbwest.

IMO, the entire WMSR has been going downhill
since they kicked Dan Pluta out.

Followed by a growing list of characters
that have come and pretty quickly gone again.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/20/17 14:22 by Realist.

Thanks for the replies guys. I just hope the WMSR gets the 1309 operable. Apparently the page I referenced is run by a J. Pirro. I don't know if that is an alias or not. The person referenced above did chime in as well. This leads me to believe he is in fact the moderator.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/20/17 20:16 by Buttons2013.

The list of alias profiles the referenced individual has could fill several threads.

Realist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> IMO, the entire WMSR has been going downhill
> since they kicked Dan Pluta out.
>
> Followed by a growing list of characters
> that have come and pretty quickly gone again.


Ditto what he said.

Shame on the WMSR Board to allow this rotation of new 'experts" to come in, flex their egos, then leave.

We've all seen it too many times. One shift on the Board of Directors and a sudden need to "change".

Congrats WMSR Board, you set your organization back 10 years and almost to the brink of bankruptcy.

in reading Mr. Garner has made some blunders, Dan Puta was probably skimping on some items, that WERN'T THE BEST COURSE. ie not adhearing to current proper practices.

dan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> in reading Mr. Garner has made some blunders, Dan
> Puta was probably skimping on some items, that
> WERN'T THE BEST COURSE. ie not adhearing to
> current proper practices.

Well, Dan, your hero makes the same claims about
his predecessor, for the same reason (to deflect
attention away from his own long list of screw-ups)
and failure to adhere to proper practices and even
rules.

In both cases, the allegations are made-up BS.

Usually, you find the guy yelling the loudest about
what he claims his predecessor did or didn't do is
actually doing what he is accusing the other guy of.

I think the guy who dismissed him is a pretty straight shooter, I have no idea, if the steam program was mine it would all be duct taped. You and Ed ARE MY FRIENDS I WOULD like to think .



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/17 20:43 by dan.