Steam & Excursion > 50 years ago this week - Bournemouth Belle last run

Today, the beautifully restored Merchant Navy 4-6-2 35028 'Clan Line' headed the Bournemouth Belle Pullman train from London Waterloo to Bournemouth today July 5 2017 to rewind the clock 50 years. The train last ran in revenue service July 9 1967, diesels replacing steam power for the last few weeks, the second and third photos showing the last train at Waterloo prior to departure, and on its return to London behind a Class 47 in 1967. British Rail management missed the publicity opportunity to have the train go out in a fanfare of steam - they were just too keen to see out the old as fast as possible.

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Thanks for posting these most interesting photos.
ALLEN

Any British locos, used in England, built as mechanical-stoker fired?

How do the manage to operate vacuum brakes on their excursions ( once universal all over Britain) in this day & age?
Or, are the steamers & the cars all retrofitted?

W.

wcamp1472 Wrote:
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> Any British locos, used in England, built as
> mechanical-stoker fired?

Very good question, Wes. I never heard of any stoker fired locomotives in GB.

> How do the manage to operate vacuum brakes on
> their excursions ( once universal all over
> Britain) in this day & age?
> Or, are the steamers & the cars all retrofitted?


You mean that vacuum brakes are no longer used in GB?? I thought that only those special Foster Yeoman rock trains, with the U.S. style couplers and the new EMD JT diesels, were the only trains with real air brake systems. Interested in those answer also.


>
> W.

Another question..
What ever happened to the British engine, the "Repton", (4-6-0?) once in the Steamtown, Vermont, collection?
It was in FANTASTIC condition, along with a British passenger car...

I remembered the coach's HUGE diameter brake cylinder..that's all they had for power braking...
Highest brake cylinder pressure was slightly greater than 15 PSI? ( the spring's compression pressure?)...

The cab's steam exhausting-valve sucked the air out of the trainline, and kept the brake pistons, sucked back...anything that lowered or destroyed the vacuum, the GIANT springs in the cylinders moved the brakshoes against the treads...

How'd they move empty coaches ???
Every move require a vacuum-release, continuous?

They always remind me of Garden Railway trains, even though full size...
In many of their estates, the Brits had a lot of Garden Railways, many 15" gauge and larger...monstrous for 'live-steamers'...

Jack, .....
I think that they converted to the Westinghouse-scheme ( Main/Auxiliary reservoirs) after the end of steam, there.

W.

Or, maybe I got the whole vacuum brake-thing, bass-ackwards ???



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/05/17 14:34 by wcamp1472.

I remember riding behind a Merchant Navy class on that very train in 1965. I was amazed by the soft sound of the exhaust even when the engine was working hard. Must have had quite large exhaust passages, or blast pipes as our Brit friends would say.

Brian Black
Castle Rock, CO

wcamp1472 Wrote:
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> What ever happened to the British engine, the
> "Repton", (4-6-0?) once in the Steamtown, Vermont,
> collection?

"Repton" is a Southern Railway "Schools Class" 4-4-0 now resident on the North Yorkshire Moors Railway. It is presently under overhaul, expected back in service this year.

Gordon

wcamp1472 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How do the manage to operate vacuum brakes on
> their excursions ( once universal all over
> Britain) in this day & age?
> Or, are the steamers & the cars all retrofitted?

"Clan Line" was the first British steam locomotive retrofitted with an air compressor and the controls to work with air-brake stock.

https://clan-line.org.uk/air-brakes/

Video from today!

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HotWater Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> wcamp1472 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Any British locos, used in England, built as
> > mechanical-stoker fired?
>
> Very good question, Wes. I never heard of any
> stoker fired locomotives in GB.
>
> > How do the manage to operate vacuum brakes on
> > their excursions ( once universal all over
> > Britain) in this day & age?
> > Or, are the steamers & the cars all
> retrofitted?
>
>
> You mean that vacuum brakes are no longer used in
> GB?? I thought that only those special Foster
> Yeoman rock trains, with the U.S. style couplers
> and the new EMD JT diesels, were the only trains
> with real air brake systems. Interested in those
> answer also.
>
>
> >
> > W.

All have air brakes now.

wcamp1472 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Another question..
> What ever happened to the British engine, the
> "Repton", (4-6-0?) once in the Steamtown, Vermont,
> collection?
> It was in FANTASTIC condition, along with a
> British passenger car...
>
> I remembered the coach's HUGE diameter brake
> cylinder..that's all they had for power braking...
>
> Highest brake cylinder pressure was slightly
> greater than 15 PSI? ( the spring's compression
> pressure?)...
>
> The cab's steam exhausting-valve sucked the air
> out of the trainline, and kept the brake pistons,
> sucked back...anything that lowered or destroyed
> the vacuum, the GIANT springs in the cylinders
> moved the brakshoes against the treads...
>
> How'd they move empty coaches ???
> Every move require a vacuum-release, continuous?
>
> They always remind me of Garden Railway trains,
> even though full size...
> In many of their estates, the Brits had a lot of
> Garden Railways, many 15" gauge and
> larger...monstrous for 'live-steamers'...
>
> Jack, .....
> I think that they converted to the
> Westinghouse-scheme ( Main/Auxiliary reservoirs)
> after the end of steam, there.
>
> W.
>
> Or, maybe I got the whole vacuum brake-thing,
> bass-ackwards ???

Wes,

Sorry, but you DID get the whole vacuum-brake thing bass-ackwards ;>). Yes, the vacuum valve (properly called an Ejector) in the locomotive's cab does suck air out of the train pipe -- but British (and most other) vacuum brake systems are AUTOMATIC brakes, not the Eames type non-automatic brakes used on many of the U.S. elevated railroads, on the Maine two-footers, and several other narrow-gauge lines, now long out of service. The automatic vacuum brake is so called because, like the automatic air brake we all know and love, it will automatically apply in the case of any extreme failure, such as a hose rupture, train break-in-two, etc. The automatic vacuum brake does not use a control (triple) valve; instead, each brake cylinder has two chambers separated by the piston, one permanently connected to the train line, the other connected to the first chamber only through a one-way check valve.

These cylinders are usually mounted vertically, with the lower chamber connected to the train line; when the negative air pressure (i.e., vacuum) is equal on both sides of the piston (in both chambers), the piston will drop slowly to the bottom of the cylinder, thus releasing the brakes. With the ejector handle in Release or Running position, the air will be sucked out of the train pipe, and out of both chambers of the brake cylinders, out of the lower chamber directly, and out of the upper chamber through the one-way check valve, so the brakes are released. To apply the brakes, the ejector allows air at atmospheric pressure to enter the train pipe, and therefore also the lower chamber of each brake cylinder; but the check valves in each cylinder will isolate the upper chamber, so that the vacuum in the upper chamber will literally "suck" the piston upward to apply the brakes (or, more correctly, the pressure differential between the sub-atmospheric pressure in the upper chamber and the atmospheric pressure in the lower chamber will force the piston upward). Note: vertically-mounted vacuum cylinders do NOT use springs of any sort; braking force is provided strictly by air pressure differential. Horizontal vacuum cylinders (not very common) do require release springs, just like air brake cylinders.

The main advantage of vacuum brakes is simplicity; the ejector on a steam locomotive has NO continuously-moving parts, and develops train line vacuum by venturi action, blowing steam through a "cone" (tapered orifice), thus providing an almost-free supply of vacuum; the cars do not need control (triple) valves, using only the check valves in the cylinders. So they make quite a lot of sense for short, steam-hauled trains of small, light cars. Once you get to diesel or electric locomotives, and longer, heavier cars and trains, the disadvantages begin to show up; the locomotives will require vacuum pumps of one sort or another (reciprocating or rotary), the quantity and size of the brake cylinders increases drastically in proportion to the weight of the car, and application/release transmission speeds get slower and slower. The worst problem is that the maximum effective air pressure available is only about 8 psi (theoretically, the maximum pressure should be atmospheric pressure, 14.7 psi at sea-level; but due to the various deductions for leakage, piston weight, altitude, etc. 8 psi is the practical maximum available) so that (as you noticed) very large, heavy brake cylinders are needed on large, modern cars. Since ALL the air in these cylinders has to be pumped out through the locomotive brake valve, brake release becomes very slow, and applications are almost as slow. The maximum practical train length for the vacuum brake is usually quoted at around 40 cars, but these are actually 40 ft., 50-ton capacity cars, so if the cars were to be modern 286,000 lb, 55 ft hoppers, the limit would be more like 20 cars.

The old Eames vacuum brake was analogous to the straight-air brake; in other words, with the whole system at atmospheric pressure, the train brakes were released, and to apply the brake, the locomotive's ejector sucked air out of the system. Of course, a broken hose would lead to no brakes, and long(ish) trains took a long time to get the brake applied.

This was necessarily a very sketchy description -- more details would lead to pages and pages of very boring stuff; but if anyone has questions, please feel free to ask. Wes, I would like to thank you once again for the detailed, comprehensive and clear explanations you have provided on steam locomotive design and operation; I have learned more from you than from any other source except my Dad -- and even that is kind of marginal!

Thanks again,

Roger Lewis (airbrakegeezer)

JohnMcIvor Wrote:
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> Video from today!

That puts a smile on my face!

Thanks.

John.

To all of our friends across the Pond, Congratulations and thank you for those wonderful pictures.


Jim
Hatboro, PA

Awesome thank you!

Wayne Crabb
San Gabriel, CA

What  a classy engine and consist .. . fifty years later . . .  the far left track seems to have a third rail . . thinking it is new continuous welded rail not yet installed or ??

Craig
mcmrailvideos.com

Really nice video love to have a model of that entire train in HO. Thanks for Sharing. TT

here is a page from a train spotting book that the former owner underlined every engine he spotted he bagged all the MN locos it appears

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All four tracks here are continuous welded rail and fitted with third electrified rail at 750V DC sitting to one side and slightly above the two running rails.

HotWater Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> wcamp1472 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Any British locos, used in England, built as
> > mechanical-stoker fired?
>
> Very good question, Wes. I never heard of any
> stoker fired locomotives in GB.

A couple of 9F's were fitted with mechanical stokers, but were removed as far as I remember.

Alexander

35005 Merchant Navy 'Canadian Pacific' was fitted with a Berkley stoker imported from the US. Although successful from a performance viewpoint, the problem was the coal available at the time - much in large lumps. The coaling plants would have had to be adapted to screen the coal.