Steam & Excursion > When The Engine's Number Matches It's Wheel Arrangement!

There can't possibly be many times when a steam locomotive was assigned a road number that just happened to match exactly its wheel arrangement. Well, here is one of those rare occasions.

In 1943 the War Production Board chose to divert six GS-6 class locomotives being built by Lima for the Southern Pacific and send them to the Western Pacific Railroad who desperately was in need of new motive power. These engines were quickly assigned road numbers 481 through 486.

I wonder if anyone saw the irony of #484, shown here at the WP Oakland roundhouse in 1949, as she was both a 4-8-4 in wheel arrangement and #484 as road number.

Martin



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/27/17 04:02 by LoggerHogger.

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What a great shot! Can't get any more "railroady" than that. Thanks Martin.

I seem to remember Maine Cebtral Pacifics were 460-series ... As in 4-6-2, #462... Somewhere in the dark reaches of my memory...

W.

Posted from iPhone

What was the purpose of the smoke deflectors on these engines? The SP didn't need them so why were they equipped on the WP's engines?

SD80MACfan Wrote:
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> What was the purpose of the smoke deflectors on
> these engines?

Um,,,,,,,,to lift the smoke?

The SP didn't need them so why were
> they equipped on the WP's engines?

The SP was a much faster railroad, and the SP/Lima designed "smoke lifters", built into the front of the skyline casing, worked well enough for them.

My dad (Bill Gibson) used this locomotive to give me a lesson on wheel arrangements. We were in the roundhouse in Salt Lake City and the 484 was having a nap. No pix, but I have remembered this engine since Aug. 1947. Thank you for making this memory come alive again! wag216

Uh, the WP had quite a bit of "faster" running once you were East of Portola, the smoke lifters
would be fine out there.

Out

I believe the SP smokelifters were a patented SP item. The GSs incorporated a lot of SP proprietary appliances, so the WP engines did not use those.

WP experimented with a few smokelifters on their 4-8-2s and 4-8-4s. The "elephant ear" arrangement was eventually applied to all the 4-8-4s.

I like the ears. They gave the WP engines a brawny appearance distinct from their SP sisters. So wish one had survived.

Great photo!

Z

zephyrus Wrote:
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> I believe the SP smokelifters were a patented SP
> item. The GSs incorporated a lot of SP
> proprietary appliances, so the WP engines did not
> use those.
>
> WP experimented with a few smokelifters on their
> 4-8-2s and 4-8-4s. The "elephant ear" arrangement
> was eventually applied to all the 4-8-4s.
>
> I like the ears. They gave the WP engines a
> brawny appearance distinct from their SP sisters.
> So wish one had survived.
>
> Great photo!
>
> Z

Turn the 4460 in St. Louis into a WP version

Looks like she's got a broken headlight lens. I'm wondering how this would happen. A kid throwing a rock, or one kicked up by a passing train ? It must have happened often enough that the Milwaukee Road made flat glass headlight frames for many of their engines.

Were the elephant ears more for lifting the smoke away from the train for better visibility for the crew, or did they actually help with the draft of the fire like stack extensions did ? Or both ?

Anyhow, thanks for the nice photo of a good looking engine.

Craig Hanson
Vay, Idaho

PERichardson Wrote:
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>
> Turn the 4460 in St. Louis into a WP version


I actually made that comment as a joke to the Executive Director of the St. Louis museum. I got a very nasty look in return.

Z

zephyrus Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I believe the SP smokelifters were a patented SP
> item. The GSs incorporated a lot of SP
> proprietary appliances, so the WP engines did not
> use those.


According to Church, the only real change to the WP GS-6s were additional staybolts around the firebox and combustion chamber. The WP later added the elephant ears. The skyline casting is of SP design; in fact, the WP didn't even bother removing the indicators.

What parts were proprietary that the WP didn't use?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/28/17 07:40 by BCHellman.

Santa Fe had a 4-6-0 numbered 460. It's an interesting coincidence, but it isn't ironic; in fact it's the opposite of ironic.

What's ironic is that AT&SF 460 was built as a 4-4-2! They also had a 4-6-0, built as a 4-6-0, that was numbered 442! Lots of Santa Fe 4-4-2's were used on Death Valley Scotty's record-breaking trip from LA to Chicago in 1905, but the only 4-6-0 used on the train was...442! "Machines of Irony presents: Santa Fe Ten-Wheelers."

zephyrus Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> PERichardson Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > Turn the 4460 in St. Louis into a WP version
>
>
> I actually made that comment as a joke to the
> Executive Director of the St. Louis museum. I got
> a very nasty look in return.
>
> Z

That kind of behavior on the part of museums probably makes railroads less likely to donate equipment!

Also notice that "fancy" cow catcher cover? with pinstripes.

Jim Baker
Riverside, CA

zephyrus Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I believe the SP smokelifters were a patented SP
> item. The GSs incorporated a lot of SP
> proprietary appliances, so the WP engines did not
> use those.
>
> WP experimented with a few smokelifters on their
> 4-8-2s and 4-8-4s. The "elephant ear" arrangement
> was eventually applied to all the 4-8-4s.
>
> I like the ears. They gave the WP engines a
> brawny appearance distinct from their SP sisters.
> So wish one had survived.
>
> Great photo!
>
> Z
Would it be the skyline casings you say are patented (your term was "smoke lifters" ? I believe the WP GS-6 series engines were the only non-SP locomotives to receive the SP style casings. There were other railroads that tried, or used, similar applications, but I cannot name one from recall.

AA

Stanford White
Carmel Valley, CA



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/29/17 13:40 by agentatascadero.

After seeing this post, I remembered a few pics that were part of several WP steam pics, given to me by Bob Larson, WP engineer, back in 1992 or so. I apologize in advance for quick pics of these photos, gotta get to work!

#1 at Salt Lake City, 5-1946

#2 at Stockton, 6-1950

Jim Baker
Riverside, CA

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That is a very interesting photo of #484 in 1946 without the elephant ears. She has the typical SP skyline casting and smoke lifters. They apparently were not proprietary to SP.

Martin

In the knowledge that we have Attorneys lurking these boards.....I'd like to ask this; if the SP did have the skyline casings patented, could the WP use the casings by paying a royalty, or some such arrangement? Regards patents; would this kind of arrangement be at all common?

AA

Stanford White
Carmel Valley, CA

LoggerHogger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That is a very interesting photo of #484 in 1946
> without the elephant ears. She has the typical SP
> skyline casting and smoke lifters. They
> apparently were not proprietary to SP.
>
> Martin

Here's the back of that photo. And will scan and post these properly later after work if time!

Jim Baker
Riverside, CA

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