Steam & Excursion > RF&P Question

In later years most, if not all, RF&P steam locomotives had a light of some sort attached to the smokebox front as seen on 617 just below the headlight. The location varied as did the light itself, but it seemed to always be there somewhere. Who can tell me what it was? Was it somehow connected to the Train Control/cab signal system?

Thanks,
Gordon

photo: West Coast Champion, Virginia Ave. Tower, 10-2-49. Bruce Fales photo, Marre collection (c)

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I can't answer your question, but thanks for that photo. I have always thought RF&P Northerns were beautiful.

Many roads employed these. Made it possible for  the fireman to check at night to see if his fire was burning cleanly --i.e., withput excessive smoke. 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/15/17 14:55 by BillMarvel.

BillMarvel Wrote:
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> Many roads employed these. Made it possible for
>  the fireman to check at night to see if his fire
> was burning cleanly --i.e., withput excessive
> smoke. 

Nope! First, there is no way that the Fireman would be able to see ANY light from that little light mounted below the big headlight.

Second, those railroads that utilized "smoke lights", which were mounted forward of the stack on a high electrical conduit, were for oil burning locomotives. Never heard of a "smoke light" used on coal burning locomotives, and that RF&P locomotive is a coal burner.

HotWater Wrote:
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> Never heard of a "smoke light" used
> on coal burning locomotives, and that RF&P
> locomotive is a coal burner.


Frisco used 'em on coal and oil fired engines.

Nice photo indeed.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/15/17 15:20 by nathansixchime.

BillMarvel Wrote:
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> Many roads employed these. Made it possible for
>  the fireman to check at night to see if his fire
> was burning cleanly --i.e., withput excessive
> smoke. 


Uhh, this light is below the the headlight pointing forward.

OK, we know what the light is NOT, how about what it IS??? Below is a different, and actually more common, design of light and on a locomotive with a high-mounted headlight. Both designs of lights were used on both high and centered headlights. On some locomotives with centered headlights this light was mounted right at the bottom of smokebox front. They appear on every class of mainline locomotive after WWII, but there is no evidence of anything similar in early photos of RF&P diesels.

Photo: Train 73 [ACL "Vacationer"] south of AF Tower, 2-23-48 Bruce Fales, Marre collection (c)

Gordon

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Here's a K-4 with one of those lights.....

...pirated from an earlier thread.

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I always thought those lights came on with emergency application. Seem so small for auxiliary headlights...

Posted from Android

puddlejumper Wrote:
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> I always thought those lights came on with
> emergency application. Seem so small for auxiliary
> headlights...

One would think that any light facing forward during an emergency brake application, would be red.

Unless "white" is actually lunar!

That makes sense to me. Not as bright or big as a headlight, but the same size as a signal aspect.

I was just looking at photos of the CN&W engines with the extra light and wondering the same thing.

I'm guessing that the engines that used this were also used on passenger trains (for station stops) and perhaps in the same manner as the Red Mars Light.

Lunar or "any condition that means not clear."



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/17/17 08:20 by nathansixchime.

nathansixchime Wrote:
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>
> I'm guessing that the engines that used this were
> also used on passenger trains (for station stops)
> and perhaps in the same manner as the Red Mars
> Light.

They were also on the 2-8-4's that were strictly freight. A confusing thing is that there does not appear to be anything similar on RF&P diesels from the same period. The E's and F's did not have Mars (or similar) Lights that could have served the same purpose. I'll do some digging to see if I can answer my own question and if I find the answer I'll post it. I just figured someone on TO would have the quick answer.

Gordon

nathansixchime Wrote:
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> Unless "white" is actually lunar!
>
> That makes sense to me. Not as bright or big as a
> headlight, but the same size as a signal aspect.
>
> I was just looking at photos of the CN&W engines
> with the extra light and wondering the same
> thing.
>
> I'm guessing that the engines that used this were
> also used on passenger trains (for station stops)
> and perhaps in the same manner as the Red Mars
> Light.
>
> Lunar or "any condition that means not clear."

Hmmmmm. Something doesn't ring right with your explanation, for all those railroads that had multiple main line track operations. How would an oncoming train distinguish a headlight from that very small light mounted below the headlight? Also, why would an oncoming train stop, when an approaching train had such a white light? Plus, I believe various rule books, and/or Employee Timetable special instructions, covered the various operating practices involving those "red emergency warning lights", but a "lunar" signal would have been proceeded by various advance restrictive signal indications.

At any rate, I would STILL like to know why the RF&P and PRR both had those small lights mounted below the headlights. Wonder if it had anything to do with operations in automatic train control areas?

Frisco had the smoke density lights on almost all of their power, oil or coal.

HotWater Wrote
>
> Wonder if it had anything to
> do with operations in automatic train control
> areas?


That's my suspicion, but then why didn't diesels of the same period appear to have them?

Gordon