Steam & Excursion > psst! Hey buddy, wanna see some dirty pictures of a Challenger?

There was a discussion the other day on the Western Board about SP cab forwards and smoke, etc. Somewhere in the thread HotWater and maybe Bob3985 talked about the trip to the California Railroad Museum where the 3985 managed to blast all the soot off the roof of the big hole. That reminded me of another dirty 3985 trip that I'm sure the crew again hated having to clean up after the mess the 3985 made.

The date was July 12, 1992, and 3985 was headed west for Salt Lake City. I don't remember the purpose of the trip, maybe others can add that detail. Anyway, on the approach to Evanston, it was raining on the east side of the Aspen / Altamont tunnels. The train was good and wet, and the 3985 promptly sooted her pants, so to speak, as the train blasted through the tunnels. Here's a couple shots of the results.

1) Leaving Evanston, the rain has stopped but it's still cloudy. The engine looks wonderful to me, like an in-service steam engine is supposed to. Unfortunately, the passenger cars also look like an in-service steam engine.

2) Heading south from Ogden, near Centerville, the sun is now out highlighting the work ahead for the crew to clean 'er up. 3985 never looked better, I'm sorry.

MAB

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It's not naked! The boiler jacket is on!

Nice shots!

Mary McPherson
Dongola, IL
Diverging Clear Productions



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/13/18 19:42 by MaryMcPherson.

After scanning these, I had to wonder how the engine crew managed to come out with white or clean shirts on!

Also, after arrival at Salt Lake City the fuel contractor managed to overflow the tender with oil running down the sides, adding to the grime. I should scan that shot, too!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/13/18 20:07 by mopac1978.

mopac1978 Wrote:
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> After scanning these, I had to wonder how the
> engine crew managed to come out with white or
> clean shirts on!


VERY carefully.

Mary McPherson
Dongola, IL
Diverging Clear Productions

I was on 3985 which was behind 844 coming back from Sacramento when we blasted through Hermosa Tunnel. We had the cab closed up tight, but when we came out, we looked like a traveling minstrel show.
Took about 4 showers to finally get clean. What a mess!
This was on the return trip from Sacramento in 91.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/14/18 10:31 by Frisco1522.

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Was that trip to the NRHS Convention in San Jose?

Good job, true live crew of 1992.

Ha! Anybody remember the Heat Miser from that Christmas cartoon when I was a kid, The Year Without a Santa Claus, I think. Frisco reminds me of him in that photo...

Andy

Now THAT is how a working steam locomotive is SUPPOSED to look! :) Too bad about the cars, though., as that is NOT how a passenger train of the streamliner era was supposed to Look. :( I didn't even know that had happened -- or,if I knew, I had forgotten about it.

Yes, that was the trip to San Jose for the NRHS convention. Only the 3985 came out for that convention, and the 844 stayed home in Cheyenne. It was a wonderful convention, and the 3985 impressed the heck out of everyone! What a locomotive!

Mary -- LOLOL! That is sooooo funny!

Nice n Dirty Pics!

1991 was trip to Railfar'91 in Sacramento, with 844 leading 3985.

1992 was trip to San Jose NRHS Convention, with 3985 by itself.
I think they cleaned everything up, with help of volunteers, in Ogden, or Salt Lake, before proceeding west through Nevada on the old WP line, because it all looked nice by the time I video taped it west of Wendover, Nev in 1992, seen here:
https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?10,4484490,4485797#msg-4485797

As a side note, in 1992, I heard that Steve Lee ordered that the 3985 be kept un-washed for an "In Service" look.
Not sure if that was for the whole trip out and back to Cheyenne, or just for the trip home from San Jose.
Here's the only clear reference I have to that "in service" look, in my video #2 seen here:
https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?10,4225774,4225774#4225774

Jim Baker
Riverside, CA



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/14/18 17:20 by RailRat.

REVISED...
Sloppy, on my part..
Oooops
My bad...
IT IS BURNING(?) OIL... too quick to assume...
Same chemistry applies, tho,—- too much fuel not enough oxygen, low draft, small train...

Cause: cold firebox, cold combustion temps, only burning down to CO...
Hottest fires burn carbon down to CO2, releases 8-times the heat of carbon monoxide and produces sooty smoke.
A strong CO2 Fire trails a light gray stack, burns less coal, reaches superheat steamtemps, is easier on engine, fireman and crew...
Another factor is too light of a train for flat, level track...hard to get much of a draft, with virtually no train behind the tender —— compared to a mile or so of freight cars...

Adding more coal only lowers temp, promotes the release of too much low-temp gaseous volatiles (in proportion to amount of oxygen available).
Prompts adding more coal ( in vain attempt to raise combustion temps) deepening firebed, allowing even less air flow through the grates & firebed.

Probably there’s no deep mound of green coal sealing airflow around the firebox mounted, MB stoker firing table, vertical-feed tube & vertical tube-protective grates—- like firing while leaving the firebox doors open... Immense amounts of cold air cooling off the fire...the tubes and the superheater ...

Very common with the MB..and poorly trained fireman.

W.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/14/18 03:29 by wcamp1472.

Definitely no coal with an oil burner. <wink>

Mary McPherson
Dongola, IL
Diverging Clear Productions

AndyBrown Wrote:
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> Ha! Anybody remember the Heat Miser from that
> Christmas cartoon when I was a kid, The Year
> Without a Santa Claus, I think. Frisco reminds me
> of him in that photo...
>
> Andy

Hilarious! Aren't we all characters of some kind?

All kidding aside, Frisco looks like quite a quality character!, just like Bob, and all the UP Steam crew guys back then!

Jim Baker
Riverside, CA



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/14/18 03:29 by RailRat.

Realist Wrote:
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> Was that trip to the NRHS Convention in San Jose?

Yes

Jim Baker
Riverside, CA

mopac1978 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> After scanning these, I had to wonder how the
> engine crew managed to come out with white or
> clean shirts on!
>
> Also, after arrival at Salt Lake City the fuel
> contractor managed to overflow the tender with oil
> running down the sides, adding to the grime. I
> should scan that shot, too!

Always plan ahead! I will bet you dollars to doughnuts, that someone on that old crew knew this was coming, and either packed some clean shirts in thier grip bags, or had them wear double "tear off" T-shirts, or something like that. (Although a bit of a trick while wearing cover-alls!)
Maybe they knew enough to cover and duck also, I dunno.
But the crews shirts do look really white after that blasting!
Very impressive!

Hmmmm, Didn't the 844/3985 go through the same thing in 1991?

Jim Baker
Riverside, CA



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/14/18 17:22 by RailRat.

Reminds me of when the T-1 was substituted for the Daylight in Birmingham, Alabama. The first leg with the T-1 was Birmingham to Huntsville which included a heck of a long hard pull ( about 20 miles of 2.0-2.5 % grade with lots of reverse curves) and it required the booster full on, in the corner, full sanders, rail washer etc.) and about 3/4's of the way up the grade was a 3/4 mile long tunnel. There hadn't been steam through that tunnel in a good 20 years and the roof was loaded with accumulated oil soot from the diesels. Well, it started raining bricks, rocks and tons of goo as we blasted through it. The deluge broke the small front windows on both the engineers side and the firemans side and dented the hell out of the top of the new boiler jacket, not to mention it scared the living you know what out of my pilot engineer and RFE.

We made it but the engine and train looked dirtier than the pictures above of the 3985 and her train.

It took all hands on deck once we got spotted at Huntsville to get the engine and train washed back into respectable shape.

Our Trainmaster Ray Flores who joined the train after the Daylight took over westbound in Chicago had never seen the T-1 and was used to the Daylight always having a diesel helper (on account of her 80 inch high drivers) came up to the engine on the ground as soon as we stopped in Huntsville and pointed up to me in the cab and hollered " now that's a pulling steam engine" !! Of course the T-1's were built to pull max. tonnage coal drags out of the Pa. coal fields over roller coaster terrain and their specialty was slugging it out with a max. tonnage train on a grade at 10-12 mph for long periods of time. She was just doing what she was built to do. Sure impressed the hell out of Mr. Flores.

Perhaps SR remembers that trip and how filthy everything was upon arrival in Huntsville??

Great memories. Thanks, Ross Rowland

wcamp1472 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oooops
> My bad...
> IT IS BURNING(?) OIL... too quick to assume...
>
> Same chemistry applies, tho,—- too much fuel not
> enough oxygen, low draft, small train...
>
> Posted from iPhone


From the photos it looks like about 17 or 18 cars.
Small train for a 4-6-6-4.

The photo west of Evanston is at or near the bottom
of a slight downgrade. Don't know about the one south
of Ogden.

Those guys didn't care much for spit and polish. They
always started a trip with a clean engine, but let
it get dirty as the trip went along to look "real."

Nothing like the daily spit-shine nowadays.

I salute you, sir..

Ross always says: “YOU (team) do da work, YOU get to decide how it looks....”
If you want to change the appearance, get busy, ,roll up your sleeves.

I was critiquing the firing style....but, yes, downhill IS WAY harder to do it RIGHT: no draft, but critical need for strong BP—- you gotta keep steam up, the best way you can....[ with a coal grate, you have the ability to carry a deep heel,as a ‘heat bank’ —- makes it easier to carry a thin, hot fire.
Nothing like it in an oil-fired engine. When the bricks cool down, you’ve gotta fight on your hands...]

The Lee Legend & Era was a spectacular chapter in loco Lore.
When the final end of the story is written, the FIRST chapter will be on the longest continuous record of operating steam locos, by one railroad.


W.

What what it's worth, those photos are PRIOR to the modifications done in about 2002, to the air intakes for the firebox on 3985, plus the addition of LOTS MORE firebrick. There was also a damper added to the firedoor air intake duct, which the Fireman could open or close for additional control of intake air going into the firebox.

I found 3985 MUCH more easy to fire, after Ron Tabke & company "adjusted" the air flow into the firebox.

Reminds me of 3751's "maiden trip" after restoration, in December 1991. On the return to Barstow from Bakersfield, the locomotive was worked hard through the diseasal deposit covered tunnels on the Tehachapi Loop. Photos in Railfan and Railroad magazine of crew Vince Cippola and Phil Kauke make Don look downright clean in his photo. My wife and I were passengers.