Steam & Excursion > Who is making money operating a steam locomotive today?

If you are restoring a steam engine in order to make money, you need to seek medical advice. They don't make money, they burn it.
If you're a Strasburg, C&TS or Durango & Silverton its a different story. Insurance costs, fuel, water, lubricants, car leasing and on and on. And you have to put every penny away for maintenance.

Another big factor which I did not mention in my earlier post is labor costs. Many, if not most all current steam operations, including some of the "successful" ones mentioned in this thread, survive in part by paying salaries that are far below market wages to their employees. They can do this, in part, because many of those employees believe strongly enough in the "cause" of preserving a steam operation that they will accept below-market salaries to further the goal of steam preservation. The big challenge there is that the pool of potential employees who are either financially able or personally willing to do the hard work necessary in such operations while earning below-market wages is shrinking. So, in a way, many steam operations are slowly devouring their pool of available human capital, and that may be turn out to be the biggest threat to their long-term existence. A major intangible asset to any organization is a well-trained, stable, and competent "workforce-in-place," and that is an asset that is declining all across the realm of steam preservation (and, really, in a whole lot of industries in this country).



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/12/18 16:43 by WW.

I've heard it said that the "money" at the movie theater is not in
the movie, but the concessions. In fact, double checking, a CNN
report suggests it's so.

Still - you can't sell popcorn and candy without the movie.

In that vane - a steam locomotive can be "profitable" if running
the venture without would otherwise not be possible.

So - summarizing my inquiry(s):

Who is operating steam today to make a decent profit?
(Who's in it for the money)
Let's call this group the (A) GROUP

Who is operating steam today because they can, but perhaps
at a loss - however minor. Ie; making enough money else where
to support steam operations.
(Whose in it because they can, but could make more otherwise)
Let's call this group the (B) GROUP

Who is doing everything they are doing JUST so that they CAN
operate steam?
(Whose in it strictly for the opportunity to run a steam loco)
Let's call this group the (C) GROUP


Seems the A group candidates are:
Durango & Silverton
The Valley Railroad in CT, perhaps?


And the B group candidates are:
Western Maryland Scenic (past, hopefully future)
New Hope & Ivyland
Strasburg?


And C group candidates:
Perhaps every group running locomotives on tracks
they do not own; ie; SP 4449, SP&S 700,
and places like C&T

Thoughts on your groupings?
UP? R&N? TVRM? Everitt? NKP 765? Others?

Recall, this inquiry is loosely based on Wes's thread
regarding New Hope & Ivyland's 4-8-4 NdeM locomotive
shelved restoration and the question that begged to be
asked: "Why would New Hope want to restore it".

/Mitch

In the past the C&TS did make a small profit. In the 1970's through late 1990's, it was operated by a private, for-profit company. The operating company was responsible for locomotive overhauls, upkeep of the physical plant, track maintenance, etc. If there was any money left in the till at the end of the year, it was theirs to keep. The C&TS Commission (the owners of the C&TS) provided funding for capital expenditures - bringing other locomotives into service, building new passenger cars, up grading track, creating new shop buildings and so forth.

Surprise no one has mentioned Steve Sandberg.... the only? person to form a for profit company to restore and operate a full size steam locomotive. Although I would venture a guess that as opportunities to run have decreased and costs have soared, that no longer is the case, and 261 is subsidized from the car rental and Amtrak charters... and that may now be in danger as well.

What about the Gramling family? They keep adding more operational locomotives, and I don't think that would be possible without making a profit on the current ones.

I would say Disneyland and Disney World make plenty of money off their steam operations. The average visitor takes in 8 rides per day and a ticket runs over $100. That comes out to $11-$12 per rider on their trains. Trains are packed throughout the day.

Todd Clark
Canyon Country, CA
Trainorders.com

Surprised no one has mentioned Cass Scenic Railroad under their current operator.

HotWater Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> typebangin Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > HotWater Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > tomstp Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------

Here, this will help you tell the difference.
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > D&S makes money, lots of it .
> > >
> > > Really? Then why is it subsidized by both
> > Colorado
> > > AND New Mexico?
> >
> > Not the Durango & Silverton; you're thinking of
> > the Cumbres & Toltec.
>
> Ahhh, right. Never having been to the C&T (did do
> the D&S for their first Snow Train), I sometimes
> get confused.

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