Steam & Excursion > Tornado has a failure during a main line excursion, 4-14-2018.

I'm surprised that there has no mention nor discussion of the break-down of Tornado, during a main line excursion, on April 14,2018. Yes, it is in England, but it's still steam! According to some reports, the center valve (she is a 3-cylinder locomotive) overheated, and damaged some of the valve gear components for that middle cylinder arrangement.

A few hundred bucks and she'll be good as new! :)

HotWater Wrote:
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> I'm surprised that there has no mention nor
> discussion of the break-down of Tornado, during a
> main line excursion, on April 14,2018. Yes, it is
> in England, but it's still steam! According to
> some reports, the center valve (she is a
> 3-cylinder locomotive) overheated, and damaged
> some of the valve gear components for that middle
> cylinder arrangement.

News release from their website:

17/04/2018

The A1 Steam Locomotive Trust would like to apologise for the disruption caused to passengers travelling on ‘The Ebor Flyer’ on Saturday 14th April 2018 and passengers on other trains impacted by No. 60163 Tornado’s breakdown. The locomotive came to a stop just south of Sandy with a broken combination lever. Investigations have so far revealed that this was due to the middle piston valve overheating and binding in the valve chest. The root cause is not yet fully clear, but it is likely that insufficient lubrication was an issue. Investigations continue to establish the cause of failure in the lubrication system and any contributing factors.

Tornado has run many miles since winter maintenance with no obvious issues in this area. Whilst we have been asked if the higher speed was a factor in the failure, at present we believe it not to be. It probably happened slightly earlier in the journey than if running at lower speed, but it most likely would still have happened.

Because we did not deliver the day out we hoped to for passengers travelling on ‘The Ebor Flyer’, we have given each passenger a voucher with discount off a future Tornado-hauled railtour. Furthermore, we are looking at the option of re-running the train in the future with a repaired Tornado and will ensure all passenger on ‘The Ebor Flyer’ get the first chance to book tickets.

Following on from this, we have postponed our visit to the Midland Railway Centre (Saturday 21st April 2018) and we have also postponed ‘The Ynys Môn Express’ which was due to run on Saturday 28th April 2018, a date is yet to be confirmed as to when this tour will be rescheduled. Additionally, we regret that we will be rearranging the Tornado Team day that was due to be at the Nene Valley Railway on Saturday 12th May 2018. – again a rescheduled date will be announced in due course.

We are now concentrating our efforts on continuing the investigation and undertaking the necessary repairs.

You can support the work of The A1 Steam Locomotive Trust by becoming one of our monthly Covenantors and donating from £10.00 per month towards No. 60163 Tornado. This is our core fundraising initiative and we have around 1,200 people who regularly donate towards the maintenance and upkeep of Tornado. For more information on how you can support the Trust in this way, or to make a one-off Donation, please click here, call 01325 460163 or email enquiries@a1steam.com.

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A similar thing happened to SP&S 700, quite some years ago, and although the 700 is NOT a 3-cylinder locomotive, one of her valves seized in the valve cage and bent the hell out of the combination lever.

I remember seeing a Video of the 700. Scott Lindsay wanted me to ship him 5 gallons of our Interlube steam oil for them and I couldn't find a damned carrier that would handle it because was a "hazardous"material.

Frisco1522 Wrote:
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> I remember seeing a Video of the 700. Scott
> Lindsay wanted me to ship him 5 gallons of our
> Interlube steam oil for them and I couldn't find
> a damned carrier that would handle it because was
> a "hazardous"material.


Wouldn't have mattered. The steam oil/valve oil for lubricating the valves and pistons must actually get into the valves & cylinders! When the delivery "spoon" in the short steam pipe is carboned-up, and the oil is actually NOT getting into the steam flow, no mater WHAT kind of oil is used, the valves still do NOT GET LUBRICATED.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/18 16:38 by HotWater.

Here is a picture I found of the combo lever in the ROW.

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wigwag Wrote:
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> A few hundred bucks and she'll be good as new! :)

"She'll buff right out!"

Is she lubricated by “mechanical lubricator”, or by hydrostatic lubricator?

A mechanical lubricator is a series on individual pumps, activated by levers injected to the reciprocating valve rods.
The stroke of each pump is individually adjusted for the demand, per mile. And anticipated track speeds, & brutal superheated steam temperatures.

The hydrotatic lubricator equalizes the pressure differential between the boiler and the valve chests. It’s oil delivery-rate ( in drops per minute) is visually adjusted by the engineer according to “custom” and track speeds...it feeds oil constantly, whether going down the tracks, or sitting stationary.....

The amount of oil delivered by the mechanical lubricator on the 759 , in my experience, seemed too high at the crossheads, for the demands.
I tampered when I should NOT have....

So, if mechanical lubricator, if the amount of oil needed seems too high, it is probably just about right. At high, sustained track speeds, you need lots of oil.
Also remember, that the oil enters the cylinders as a greasy smoke, it is not liquid ..... the valves could be runnning ‘dry’ if adjusted for saturated, wet steam conditions...superheating temperatures are brutal, and copious amounts of oil are needed.
I would look to vastly increasing the quantity of oil being fed to the cylinders...

These are some factors to consider, when deciding what should be changed.
Valve Rings, running dry, are susceptible to breakage and shedding pieces into the cylinders...

Be very alert to examining the true cause of the mechanical failure...
Simply applying new pieces, with no changes, will NOT prevent a recurrence..

Sadder, but wiser...

W.

That blue color on the rod is an indication it got very hot before breaking.

tomstp Wrote:
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> That blue color on the rod is an indication it got
> very hot before breaking.

Looks like it was torch cut for removal.

Posted from Android



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/18 17:55 by LIL_BUDDY.

LIL_BUDDY Wrote:
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> tomstp Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > That blue color on the rod is an indication it
> got
> > very hot before breaking.
>
> Looks like it was torch cut for removal.

I seriously doubt THAT! This happened out on the main line, and it sure looks like the inside valve gear literally threw those pieces out onto the right-of-way.

I think that is a very good press release from the Tornado web site -- explains in sufficient detail what went wrong and what they propose to do to compensate passengers. Also announces known changes in the locomotives future engagements. I think being up front right from the beginning is a very good policy.

Gordon

Ugh.

and this was at the beginning of her approved 90mph running.....she was glorious at speed just before the failure.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/18 19:03 by OKTrainboys.

I guess this proves that steam locomotives still have steam locomotive problems from time to time no matter how new they are.

Tough working on that inside cylinder.

Speculation/contemplation...

It is probably true that the total area of the valve’s “ring rubbing-surface” area exceeds the area of the bearing hole ( & pin) in the combo lever that connects to the valve stem.... So, if the rings are running dry, the excessive “braking force” puts excessive pressure on the pivot bearings in the combination lever.

It looks like that hole in the conn rod
(lying on the ground ..) was battered badly, and cyclic metal fatigue seems to have broken the lever...

So, it may have started with insufficient amount of oil fed to the rings & cylinders (compared to the amount needed for 90-per speeds ) were factors in the failure.

It takes a higher rate of oil feeds to adequately lubricate high speed reciprocating parts. It also takes very liberal bearing surface areas, in order to handle the terrific reciprocal loading forces of high speed locos.

Also, being the middle cylinder, historically has been problematic with multi-cylinder designs.

There are a lot of tough engineering factors to consider, when weighing the corrective steps to allow future high speed running. I would caution against simply reconstructing the design. I would include ways to increase the bearing areas, increasing the feed rate of oil to the valves & cylinder rings and also increase the oil feed rate to the combination lever pivot points ( and others) for that middle cylinder...

FWIW ....

W.

Posted from iPhone



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/18/18 03:54 by wcamp1472.

patd3985 Wrote:
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> wigwag Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > A few hundred bucks and she'll be good as new!
> :)
>
> "She'll buff right out!"


Those quotes are getting kind of old and dumb to post kids.

There is a good video on Youtube that shows the aftermath.
60163 Tornado breaks down with The Ebor Flyer 1Z63 14/04/2018

HotWater Wrote:
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> A similar thing happened to SP&S 700, quite some
> years ago, and although the 700 is NOT a
> 3-cylinder locomotive, one of her valves seized in
> the valve cage and bent the hell out of the
> combination lever.


Believe that was the radius rod that suffered the most.