Steam & Excursion > Not Surprising - Durango & Silverton RR Extends Their Closure!

https://www.prlog.org/12713202-dsngrr-prolongs-suspension-of-coal-fired-steam-train-passenger-service-through-sat-june-30.html

The economic hit on the area is huge.

https://durangoherald.com/articles/227478-economic-pain-from-416-fire-hits-home


Durango & Silverton Narrow Gauge Railroad
9 mins ·

IMPORTANT #DURANGOTRAIN ANNOUNCEMENT:
COAL-FIRED STEAM TRAIN PASSENGER SERVICE SUSPENSION EXTENDED THROUGH AT LEAST SAT., JUNE 30
===============================================
The Durango & Silverton Narrow Gauge Railroad (D&SNGRR) today announced it is prolonging the suspension of its coal-fired steam train steam passenger service through at least Sat., June 30. The railroad made the decision after thorough consultations with firefighting personnel and government agencies regarding current fire, drought and weather conditions.

As the company stated in previous announcements, #DurangoTrain guests whose coal-fired steam train passenger service excursions are canceled as a result of this extended suspension will receive full, immediate and automatic ticket refunds. Ticket holders should allow 7-10 business days for their refunds to be processed and appear on their credit card statements.

The D&SNGRR, in conjunction with local agencies, authorities, and other prominent community leaders and stakeholders, continues to evaluate the feasibility of launching limited-range diesel locomotive passenger service later in the summer, once it is safe to do so. After those plans are fully determined, the railroad will publicly announce all relevant details, including fares, schedules, and itineraries, associated with this new passenger service.

In the meantime, the company encourages Durango-area travelers and impacted passengers to visit the D&SNGRR depot for scheduled railyard tours and free museum admissions. Additionally, travelers to the Four Corners region can check out the Visit Durango website, www.durango.org, for up-to-the-minute news and resources about special events, outdoor recreational opportunities, arts and cultural activities, and other goings-on available and accessible during the 416 Fire.

Official Press Release ----> http://bit.ly/2HGVNLD

Martin



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/12/18 08:13 by LoggerHogger.

Probably down for the year. If the railroad is officially determined to have caused the fire, can you imagine what will happen should they try to resume service, at least with coal burners, this summer? Not to mention whether or not they could financially survive the inevitable lawsuits stemming from the fire. I wonder how CATS is taking all this in. Gotta be worried, but maybe more cautious and prepared than the D&S appeared to be?

Being a fan of the D&S, dating back to the mid 1950's, I have found that the railroad was "super" diligent concerning fire patrols and general patrols of the right of way, especially during dry years. But this year seems to be one of those SUPER DRY YEARS, little or no snow during the winter and a DRY SPRING! The last time I rode D&S, I rode on the SILVER VISTA and the car attendant, as well as the train crew, asked each passenger to be an "extra set of eyes" concerning anything that even looked like smoke or fire! On the return trip we had to wait while the fire team following the first train dealt with a small fire. As we passed you could see the burn area, maybe an area 50' square! The speeder behind us then lent a hand to the first crew! We were advised by the crew when we arrive in Durango that a passenger saw the smoke on the first train and reported to the crew!

I have also rode the C&TS during dry years and they are also super diligent on fire suppression efforts. At one time they used a tank car to spray the R-O-W behind the locomotive! They quickly discovered that was "counter-productive" since it promoted grass and weed growth and eventually it dried out!

IF D&S is found responsible for THIS FIRE, the cry will sound, BAN THE RAILROAD. But before we all go off half cocked and sign D&S's (as we know and love it) death warrant, lets wait for the OFFICIAL report from the Forest Service! There have been reports that the D&S caused the fire, period! Or did they start "a fire", that was suppressed by local units about the same time as the BIG FIRE was reported! The fire is a major blow to the economy of SW CO that will be felt for many years, but lets let the officials do their job!

The "Ban the Train" people are going to get a dose of reality when examining the local
economy without the train running.

Out

Reality.

My guess is that most of the "Ban the Train" people have little or no connection the the huge economic benefit the railroad brings to the Durango-Silverton area. Many of these people built homes at the edge of and even in the national forest that surrounds the Animas River valley. Forests burn especially in times of drought. When the monsoon season eventually arrives a new source of fires emerges from lightning strikes. Even if is determined that the train did start the fire there are a number of things the RR can do. Though expensive, the D&SNG could purchase a helicopter and hire a pilot to fly up and down the route when the trains are running looking for spot fires. Another expensive option would be to have GE build them 2 or 3 narrow gauge AC44W's (or whatever the current model designation is) maybe tack on to the end of an order for the ones they build for Brazil. I'm sure one of those units could handle a fully loaded train up the grade to Silverton. They would be expensive assets just sitting around when steam is running but they would probably eventually pay for themselves in times of severe drought like we have currently. Just my $0.02.)
Steve B.

I was thinking more along the line of the ALCo/GE 90 Class Shovel Nose's instead of the current stuff! To bad there aren't a couple of spares hanging out somewhere!

GE might be able to squeeze three feet out of those 4000 hp, 4 truck, meter gauge things
in their catalog.

Out

D&S need not buy any new diesels as they have one and a half that can couple on at Hermosa and pull the train to Rockwood where they would cut off and deadhead back to Hermosa to get the next train. That is the only critical part of the route. Trains could also be double headed with steam so the two engines could both drift along with no heavy firing that makes sparks. They can reduce speed in wooded areas to also reduce chance of sparks. Lengthen the schedule during drought period. D&S would like to buy the two diesel that worked the Georgetown loop but Ashley refuses to let then get to the D&S.

Lotta rough comments on that Durango Herald link.

TJY

The sad thing is the D&S has done everything the USFS has asked them to do as far as fire prevention goes and then some. We will see what happens. It should be noted the cause is still listed as unknown and under investigation.

CS

What kind of job does the USFS and BLM do in keeping the forests in shape? I know the NIMBYs are going to make hay with all of this and its very sad.
How do they know what started the fire in the first place. With it being that dry, it could almost be anything.

They do a very professional job of driving around in their trucks and admiring dead trees. CDF (Cal Forest) did
a decent job during the years I lived in the foothills and you didn't have combustibles around your house. You
cleared the defensible area or they did it for you and sent you both the bill and the summons for not doing it.

Out

Frisco1522 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What kind of job does the USFS and BLM do in
> keeping the forests in shape? I know the NIMBYs
> are going to make hay with all of this and its
> very sad.
> How do they know what started the fire in the
> first place. With it being that dry, it could
> almost be anything.

Read my post elsewhere concerning this.

Forest management policy of suppressing forest fires goes clear back to the major fires in the Northern Rockies in 1910. Driven in large part by the logging interests at the time--who did not want to see any policy that would allow fires to reduce the amount of marketable lumber trees in the forest--there was a decades-long effort to suppress any fires on the public lands.

Unfortunately, by the time that forest managers realized that wildfire suppression was turning the forests into lands overcrowded with trees--with many of them unhealthy, diseased, or dead--rural real estate development on private land inholdings and private lands adjoining the public lands had reached the point that allowing wildfires to naturally burn out unhealthy forest areas simply no longer could be done safely. The explosion of such development in the Rockies (and the Durango area is a prime example) in the last 40 years or so has meant that near total fire suppression has had to remain forest management policy on much of the public lands, even though forest managers know that such policy makes large scale uncontrollable wildfires more likely over time.

Put bluntly, many greedy land development interests, fueled by people desiring to "own their little piece of heaven" in rural mountain subdivisions, have essentially assured the eventual decimation of millions of acres of public forest areas by large "megafire" events such as the one now happening near Durango. Of course, this gets little recognition in the press or elsewhere because many of the people who have benefited from such activities do not want to be seen as the root cause of the problem.

Soon enough we will know HOW the fire started (railroad or some other source), but what will be cleverly hidden is WHY the fire grew into a monster (exposed above). Read the accounts of the fire suppression efforts on the 416 fire. Nearly all that is talked about is what is being done to protect private structures. Almost no mention is made about any efforts to protect forest resources or any explanation provided as to why the forest was so unhealthy that what started as small ignition could rapidly turn into a multi-ten thousand acre megafire.

For more proof of what I say, consider some narrow gauge history from Alamosa to Silverton. From the time of construction of the narrow gauge lines from Alamosa to Durango, then to Silverton, coal-fired locomotives plied those lines. For many decades, there were no "fire patrols" and the locomotives themselves often did not even sport spark arrestors. Yet the trains started few, if any, large fires of note for a century-plus. Why? Simply put, while the operations of the trains changed little over the decades, the character of the forests they plied changed plenty. Those forests went from being healthy, with low to moderate fuel loads back then, to being very unhealthy, with heavy fuel loads today. There is plenty of blame to go around for that, but almost none of it belongs to the railroads in the area (D&S and C&TS).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/12/18 20:09 by WW.

Clear cutting was a very effective means of fire management in that it both established fire breaks
and cleared out the dead and combustibles. CDF did a mice job of spot burns and management, it just
didn't have the budget for large scale projects ie the money went into fire fighting.

Out

I've noticed giant swaths of grey, bark beetle-killed evergreens along the C&TS for the past several years. That's got to be a huge factor also along the D&S.
It seems our national forests are, in general, funds-starved, poorly managed, with inept decision-making thrown in. The horrifying Los Alamos area fire several years ago that we watched nightly on Abq TV almost burned out the entire town and radioactive-handling Labs because a scheduled controlled burn above the town was started, even though dangerous winds were a possibility.
They sure were.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/12/18 21:42 by Abqfoamer.

WW Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Frisco1522 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > What kind of job does the USFS and BLM do in
> > keeping the forests in shape? I know the
> NIMBYs
> > are going to make hay with all of this and its
> > very sad.
> > How do they know what started the fire in the
> > first place. With it being that dry, it could
> > almost be anything.
>
> Read my post elsewhere concerning this.
>
> Forest management policy of suppressing forest
> fires goes clear back to the major fires in the
> Northern Rockies in 1910. Driven in large part by
> the logging interests at the time--who did not
> want to see any policy that would allow fires to
> reduce the amount of marketable lumber trees in
> the forest--there was a decades-long effort to
> suppress any fires on the public lands.
>
> Unfortunately, by the time that forest managers
> realized that wildfire suppression was turning the
> forests into lands overcrowded with trees--with
> many of them unhealthy, diseased, or dead--rural
> real estate development on private land inholdings
> and private lands adjoining the public lands had
> reached the point that allowing wildfires to
> naturally burn out unhealthy forest areas simply
> no longer could be done safely. The explosion of
> such development in the Rockies (and the Durango
> area is a prime example) in the last 40 years or
> so has meant that near total fire suppression has
> had to remain forest management policy on much of
> the public lands, even though forest managers know
> that such policy makes large scale uncontrollable
> wildfires more likely over time.
>
> Put bluntly, many greedy land development
> interests, fueled by people desiring to "own their
> little piece of heaven" in rural mountain
> subdivisions, have essentially assured the
> eventual decimation of millions of acres of public
> forest areas by large "megafire" events such as
> the one now happening near Durango. Of course,
> this gets little recognition in the press or
> elsewhere because many of the people who have
> benefited from such activities do not want to be
> seen as the root cause of the problem.
>
> Soon enough we will know HOW the fire started
> (railroad or some other source), but what will be
> cleverly hidden is WHY the fire grew into a
> monster (exposed above). Read the accounts of the
> fire suppression efforts on the 416 fire. Nearly
> all that is talked about is what is being done to
> protect private structures. Almost no mention is
> made about any efforts to protect forest resources
> or any explanation provided as to why the forest
> was so unhealthy that what started as small
> ignition could rapidly turn into a multi-ten
> thousand acre megafire.
>
> For more proof of what I say, consider some narrow
> gauge history from Alamosa to Silverton. From the
> time of construction of the narrow gauge lines
> from Alamosa to Durango, then to Silverton,
> coal-fired locomotives plied those lines. For
> many decades, there were no "fire patrols" and the
> locomotives themselves often did not even sport
> spark arrestors. Yet the trains started few, if
> any, large fires of note for a century-plus. Why?
> Simply put, while the operations of the trains
> changed little over the decades, the character of
> the forests they plied changed plenty. Those
> forests went from being healthy, with low to
> moderate fuel loads back then, to being very
> unhealthy, with heavy fuel loads today. There is
> plenty of blame to go around for that, but almost
> none of it belongs to the railroads in the area
> (D&S and C&TS).

Again WW perfectly stated again.... 100% on point and agree with every word.

CS

WwW--
Thank you. You said it all. Your post should e required reading for everyone -- no exceptions.

Everyone --
Ask the next question. Please.

We desperately need real adults to start running things. Letting toddlers run things has never worked, and because immature and therefore selfish and cruel people have been running things for far too long, we are in a major crisis in this poor, suffering country, and in the whole world right now.

The Hopis have a word for it: "koyaanisqatsi", meaning life very badly out of balance.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/13/18 00:37 by Margaret_SP_fan.

Margaret_SP_fan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> The Hopis have a word for it: "koyaanisqatsi",
> meaning life very badly out of balance.


Never heard that word before Margaret, but I totally agree with the meaning!

callum_out Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> GE might be able to squeeze three feet out of
> those 4000 hp, 4 truck, meter gauge things
> in their catalog.
>
> Out

I'm sure they would work brilliantly on that light stick rail and tight curves on the D&S. Let's not even get into bridges. The only way this railroad is going to survive long-term is getting rid of coal and either run oil burning steam locos or diesels. Short of that it most likely is toast.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/13/18 16:03 by utwazoo.