Steam & Excursion > Durango fire update

From today's Durango Herald. The fire covers 27,420 acres and is 15% contained. Full containment projected by July 31. Wonder if any trains will run at all this season.

May not be much scenery for the passengers to look at.

How many brake shoes on that train(s) are cast iron?

Was the origin location of the line-side fire up-grade, or down-grade?

Had that loco, or others, started other fires as a result of glowing embers thrown out the stack?

Another historic cause of trackside fires was open or holes in the ashpan....

This is a truly sad outcome ...

W.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/13/18 17:55 by wcamp1472.

PHall Wrote:
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> May not be much scenery for the passengers to look
> at.

Always the Cumbres & Toltec to get your narrow gauge fix.

There are many other fires burning in Colorado. None are anywhere near a coal fired steam railway. Maybe they shouldn't be so quick to blame a railroad that has been there for over a hundred years. Seems like they are looking for a scapegoat to get rid of the polluting relic of the past in an area taken over by NIMBY types.

andersonb109 Wrote:
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> There are many other fires burning in Colorado.
> None are anywhere near a coal fired steam railway.
> Maybe they shouldn't be so quick to blame a
> railroad that has been there for over a hundred
> years. Seems like they are looking for a scapegoat
> to get rid of the polluting relic of the past in
> an area taken over by NIMBY types.

Probably right. Then again the current ownership has been using the railroad as a cash cow, only recently putting investment into right of way, etc. I think the real shame is if this shutdown is protracted it will have impacts to other railroad properties the current ownership has interests in... they already suspended operations at one.

-Regards,

Dave

Hypothetical thought: Maybe started by some NIMBY smoking some now legal Colorado product but trying to blame railroad as some NIMBY's are walking buttheads. This railroad is a fantastic operation that greatly supports Silverton and Durango with many railfan dollars spent there with great lodging, restaurants, railfan souvenir shops and many other great attractions including museum and shop tours. Thoroughly enjoyed it last October doing all the above with a group of railfan friends.

SuperChiefDon

There were some emphatic cries that the railroad was not responsible for the fires very early on in this evolution. Not sure what basis those claims had but they seem to be gone now.

I also find it hard to belive, however possible, that the railroad has been there this long and not started a large fire until 2018.

There will be an investigation for sure and we will all know the official cause. Politics will most likely play a role and if we're lucky CO may protect the RR if found to be at fault. Or, we will have a really nice bike path soon.

As far shutting down the railroad what does it being on the register of historic places do to protect it?

Remember a few years ago when CTnS lost the Lobato trestle? It was a curtailed season but eventually everything worked out.

Posted from Android

No need to shut it down; just get rid of coal burning. But if Harper ends up with huge bills for fire fighting (over $10 million to date) or lawsuits, it could bankrupt the entire enterprise.

PHall Wrote:
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> May not be much scenery for the passengers to look
> at.


The rocks are relatively fire resistant.

Even a burned-over landscape is worth looking at. One of the best trips I ever did was into Yellowstone in the spring of 1989, right after the big 1988 fire. Nothing to illustrate "hope" quite like watching lodgepole pine seedlings coming up through burned-over ground.

Might be a lean couple of months, though, for ticket sales.

The fire started less than a quarter of a mile from my home, and I was home when it started. Instead of coming up with hypothetical nonsense (For the most part), lets wait to see what the authorities come up with. There is more to this than any of you either are aware of or appreciate.

The fire is almost 30,000 acres and firefighting costs are over ten million dollars so far. And the fire is a long way from out, and some folks are still evacuated. We were out for five days--we were allowed back because everything around us is burned to a crisp, so our danger is over. So far no structures lost, and most important, no firefighters injured.

I'm not trying to be a horses butt, but give us a break, those of us who live here. For realistic updates, go to <Durango Herald.com>

Thanks.

Al Chione

For deep background on the USFS's mission to control wildfires, you might read The Big Burn by Timothy Egan.
He covers the founding years of the USFS under Teddy Roosevelt and how they over-promised their ability to control fires. Then shortly after TR left office in 1910 a massive fire came together from dozens of smaller fires in a severe drought in WA, ID, and MT, with terrible results in terms of forests burned, lives lost, and property damage. We are still living with the consequences of how the USFS and the US Congress changed at that time.

There was another big wildfire shutdown of the D&SNG maybe 10 or 15 years ago. Didn't the railroad buy up some narrow gauge diesels from across the fruited plain just so they could maintain service the next time the wildfires returned?

You are thinking of the 2002 Missionary Ridge fire which was even bigger than the current 416 fire. The Durango paper has an article about it here https://durangoherald.com/articles/39845.

The D&S did buy several diesels, but they were mostly GE center cab ex steel mill diesels which are slow. If drought conditions are going to be endemic, they might need to bite the bullet and order new units from GE or another builder. Finding used 3' gauge diesels with sufficient speed and power is probably not going to happen. Any that exist in South America are probably trashed.

If meter gauge or 42" gauge units from someplace like New Zealand can be converted to 3 foot gauge, that might be a possibility but it may be as expensive as buying new. Traction motor design is a limiting factor for 3' gauge diesels.

Michael Allen

Today (June 15) the 416 fire has slowed on its north end, and all evacuees there (Ski Area, Silverton, etc) have been allowed to return to their homes. It ran into a large Aspen tree stand and this has slowed it down. The south end is ripping along on the top of the mesa on the west side of the Animas Valley. As of this AM it had consumed 32,959 acres and is 18% contained. This fire is still very dangerous, as it could take several different directions, none of which are good. We are now being faced with the possibility of flash floods as the remains of Hurricane Bud will be arriving here tomorrow. This is a mixed bag--the rain is a good thing if it materializes but the attendant lightning and winds are not. We will find out tomorrow.

I would like to see some of the "Possible Causes" and other nonsense that have shown up on various posts go away. I would ask that everyone who is engaged in this let the investigators do their job. It will take time, because they have to get it right. And they don't need any help from afar. I can assure everyone that there have been numerous people at the location where the fire started--I can see it from my home.

I would suggest that you monitor the Durango Herald and other sites of your choosing.

Al Chione

PHall Wrote:
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> May not be much scenery for the passengers to look
> at.


The fire is along a 3-5 mile stretch of the 45 mile railroad. Most of the fire's damage is not visible from the railroad.

I've been to the D&S to ride and chase trains for the past 30 years. Our last visit was this time last year. On EVERY visit since our first one we've noticed that a track speeder equipped with about a 300 gallon tank of water and hoses follows each train. The purpose of the operator of this track speeder is to be very observant in looking for any fires that the trains may have started, and to quickly extinguish them. It is doubtful that a train caused this fire. A more likely cause is that someone flipped a lit cigarette from a car from parallel Route 550.

Lightning strikes cause many fires in this region. The cause of the 416 may never be determined. So, lets not jump to any conclusions that a D&S train caused this fire.

Hermosa45 Wrote:
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> Today (June 15) the 416 fire has slowed on its
> north end, and all evacuees there (Ski Area,
> Silverton, etc) have been allowed to return to
> their homes. It ran into a large Aspen tree stand
> and this has slowed it down. The south end is
> ripping along on the top of the mesa on the west
> side of the Animas Valley. As of this AM it had
> consumed 32,959 acres and is 18% contained. This
> fire is still very dangerous, as it could take
> several different directions, none of which are
> good. We are now being faced with the possibility
> of flash floods as the remains of Hurricane Bud
> will be arriving here tomorrow. This is a mixed
> bag--the rain is a good thing if it materializes
> but the attendant lightning and winds are not. We
> will find out tomorrow.
>
> I would like to see some of the "Possible Causes"
> and other nonsense that have shown up on various
> posts go away. I would ask that everyone who is
> engaged in this let the investigators do their
> job. It will take time, because they have to get
> it right. And they don't need any help from afar.
> I can assure everyone that there have been
> numerous people at the location where the fire
> started--I can see it from my home.
>
> I would suggest that you monitor the Durango
> Herald and other sites of your choosing.
>
> Al Chione


I hear you Al, but it seemns most of the blame some of the guys posted was caused by the train, but I'm with you, it's a wait and see deal!

Posted from Android

One of the early reports said the active steam locomotives and consists were safely parked in Silverton.

Is that still the case?

Posted from Android