Steam & Excursion > Confirmed: 611 will not pull public trips in 2018

ROANOKE, Va. (JUNE 16, 2018) - The Virginia Museum of Transportation, Inc. announced new community events today for its iconic 611 Class J locomotive and plans to continue working to explore new opportunities for 611. 611 will not be operating public excursions in 2018, but will be participating in special events.

"We are very pleased to announce that we are engaged in substantive conversations about exciting potential 2019 excursions and special appearances for 611. We will continue to seek opportunities for the public to experience a pivotal piece of American history firsthand, under steam", according to Virginia Museum of Transportation FORWARD 611 Committee Chairman, Trey Davis.

Public excursions engage new audiences with railroads, produce essential revenue for the upkeep of the locomotive, and generate significant economic impact in the communities 611 serves. Despite the changes, annual maintenance to keep the famed locomotive operational is ongoing and expected to be finished later this summer at the North Carolina Transportation Museum (NCTM) in Spencer, NC. Upon completion, the 611 will be put back into service.

"We're working hard to ensure the public continues to have opportunities to engage with 611 and are planning unique events to provide opportunities to experience 611 under steam in 2018," said VMT Board President Will Harris. "The Virginia Museum of Transportation and NCTM are both planning special events with the locomotive in Roanoke and Spencer NC, respectively. In addition, 611 is slated to again be the highlight of Roanoke's Big Lick Train Tug on September 29, 2018."

While event plans highlighting the Queen of Steam continue to develop, efforts to provide 611 a weather-proof home at the Virginia Museum of Transportation have advanced significantly.

"With generous donors and community support, the Museum has obtained a steel building that will form the core of the new 611 Preservation & Education Facility. We're now closer than ever before to providing future generations the opportunity to see steam technology up close, better understand a foundational technology of America's industrial power, and see firsthand how the railroad helped build our country. Ideally, we would like to break ground before the end of this calendar year," said Harris.

As is the case for all mainline steam locomotives, PTC (Positive Train Control) is very likely to be a central issue in determining where and how 611 may operate in 2019 and beyond. The FORWARD 611 team at VMT has been studying potential solutions and participating in discussions with other mainline steam operators. The initial cost to develop and apply PTC technology to 611 will be significant and there will be recurring annual expenses. In the absence of revenue-generating excursions in 2018, we are asking supporters to consider a donation to FireUp611 (www.fireup611.org) to support this and other investments in 611's future.

____________________________________________________

About Virginia Museum of Transportation FireUp611

The Virginia Museum of Transportation, Inc., with a team of more than 300 dedicated volunteers and the leadership of the FORWARD 611 Committee, is the largest operator of mainline steam excursions in the nation. In three seasons of operation, 611 excursions have generated an economic impact of $18+ million in the communities served, carried 22,000+ passengers, and drawn an estimated quarter of a million fans and spectators. In addition to gratefully acknowledging our volunteers and partners, we would like to thank our donors and passengers - who come from all 50 states and countries including the United Kingdom, Japan, Australia, Germany, Canada, France, and South Africa - for their continued support of the locomotive. Follow FireUp611 on Facebook and visit www.fireup611.org for future announcements.

About The Virginia Museum of Transportation, Inc.

Located in the historic Norfolk & Western Freight Station in Roanoke, Virginia, The Virginia Museum of Transportation, Inc. is the official transportation museum of the Commonwealth of Virginia. Experience the only remaining examples of the Norfolk & Western's legendary success at the Virginia Museum of Transportation with the Class Y6a 2156, Class A 1218 and the Class J 611 locomotives. In our Rail Yard, explore historic steam and diesel engines, cabooses and other rail equipment as modern trains rumble past. Inside the Museum, enjoy model trains, hands-on exhibits, an aviation gallery and stroll among our antique automobile, truck and bus exhibits. The Virginia Museum of Transportation will spark your imagination and kindle your curiosity. Visit vmt.org for more information.

Lots of nice lawyer double-talk. Then blame it on PTC.

> ROANOKE, Va. (JUNE 16, 2018) - The Virginia Museum
> of Transportation, Inc. announced new community
> events today for its iconic 611 Class J locomotive
> and plans to continue working to explore new
> opportunities for 611. 611 will not be operating
> public excursions in 2018, but will be
> participating in special events.

This could be considered more of an announcement if they were announcing whatever "community events" / "special events" they were supposedly announcing.

> "We are very pleased to announce that we are
> engaged in substantive conversations about
> exciting potential 2019 excursions and special
> appearances for 611.

They are announcing that they are still taking about places to run the engine? How exciting.

> "We're working hard to ensure the public continues
> to have opportunities to engage with 611 and are
> planning unique events to provide opportunities to
> experience 611 under steam in 2018," said VMT
> Board President Will Harris. "The Virginia Museum
> of Transportation and NCTM are both planning
> special events with the locomotive in Roanoke and
> Spencer NC, respectively. In addition, 611 is
> slated to again be the highlight of Roanoke's Big
> Lick Train Tug on September 29, 2018."

It'd be substantial if perhaps the announcement announced whatever events the engine is slated to attend.

> While event plans highlighting the Queen of Steam
> continue to develop, efforts to provide 611 a
> weather-proof home at the Virginia Museum of
> Transportation have advanced significantly.
> "With generous donors and community support, the
> Museum has obtained a steel building that will
> form the core of the new 611 Preservation &
> Education Facility. We're now closer than ever
> before to providing future generations the
> opportunity to see steam technology up close,
> better understand a foundational technology of
> America's industrial power, and see firsthand how
> the railroad helped build our country. Ideally, we
> would like to break ground before the end of this
> calendar year," said Harris.

They had some grandiose plans for a 3 stall brick backshop looking building for restoration & viewing. Seems like the steel building is scaled back from that. It's one thing to have an enclosed building, but another matter to outfit it with equipment to preform restoration work. I just don't see a large building on their existing property, short of enclosing /enlarging the existing shed. Maybe that's what they are getting at?

> As is the case for all mainline steam locomotives,
> PTC (Positive Train Control) is very likely to be
> a central issue in determining where and how 611
> may operate in 2019 and beyond. The FORWARD 611
> team at VMT has been studying potential solutions
> and participating in discussions with other
> mainline steam operators. The initial cost to
> develop and apply PTC technology to 611 will be
> significant and there will be recurring annual
> expenses. In the absence of revenue-generating
> excursions in 2018, we are asking supporters to
> consider a donation to FireUp611
> (www.fireup611.org) to support this and other
> investments in 611's future.

It's too bad no more excursion were attempted [earlier] than what has been run in 3 very short seasons. During Wick's final years at the NS helm, traffic wasn't as busy as it is now & it's too bad more excursions couldn't have been operated.... ....to bank some money for the PTC install & see ahead to a different CEO at NS who apparently doesn't have the same affection for steam as Wick did.

> The Virginia Museum of Transportation, Inc., with
> a team of more than 300 dedicated volunteers and
> the leadership of the FORWARD 611 Committee, is
> the largest operator of mainline steam excursions
> in the nation.

Really??


I wish them well. They really need to find a place for the engine to run & attempt to generate some revenue. I'm aware that many steam /excursion operators share the same desire & it's challenging. I get the feeling that certain factions are content with it sitting under the shed at VMT for whoever happens by the museum for a visit or think it's a great idea if the trips operate only out of Roanoke. That market is saturated. Hopefully the Fwd 611 committee has some fresh ideas on tap to send the 611 some places & run some excursions to generate some revenue.

To my way of thinking, 611 needs to pound her way up Blue Ridge grade and Christianburg Mountain, hauling a string of maroon coaches. For you younger guys, you have no problem tolerating her running along alligator waters of Florida, hauling a string of miss matched, dome cars. Yes, yes, I know.....we are lucky to see her run at all. But for josh sake people....is it a traveling carnival, or a tribute to the Claytor boys and O. Winston Link himself. I am not interested in hearing Elvis Presley singing “All Shook UP” from atop a circus elephant, while Roy Rogers is swinging from the elephant’s tail.

Keystone1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> To my way of thinking, 611 needs to pound her way
> up Blue Ridge grade and Christianburg Mountain,
> hauling a string of maroon coaches. For you
> younger guys, you have no problem tolerating her
> running along alligator waters of Florida, hauling
> a string of miss matched, dome cars. Yes, yes, I
> know.....we are lucky to see her run at all. But
> for josh sake people....is it a traveling
> carnival, or a tribute to the Claytor boys and O.
> Winston Link himself. I am not interested in
> hearing Elvis Presley singing “All Shook UP”
> from atop a circus elephant, while Roy Rogers is
> swinging from the elephant’s tail.


Assuming everything today is as it was three years ago politically and logistically,it still takes LOTS of $$$ to finance the trips YOU want to see. Would you be there purchasing a ticket if it ran every weekend on the same route? Would you even be there every weekend spending your $$$ to watch it? I’m going to assume the answer to those questions is in the negative. That’s how many others feel...been there,done that. So,I’ll ask you another question...if you,nor I,nor the many others who have already seen/ ridden those Roanoke trips no longer support said excursions,or the local economy,with our presence and $$$,how do you expect those trips to be financially viable?...with other peoples $$$ but not yours? The definition of market saturation is no longer able to absorb,in this case,paying customers. Econ 101. I’d like to hear your business plan to make your request viable. I’m sure if you have a good one,the VMT and the citizens of Roanoke would like to hear your money making ideas for the 611 too.

Tom

Tom

towazy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Keystone1 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > To my way of thinking, 611 needs to pound her
> way
> > up Blue Ridge grade and Christianburg Mountain,
> > hauling a string of maroon coaches. For you
> > younger guys, you have no problem tolerating
> her
> > running along alligator waters of Florida,
> hauling
> > a string of miss matched, dome cars. Yes, yes,
> I
> > know.....we are lucky to see her run at all.
> But
> > for josh sake people....is it a traveling
> > carnival, or a tribute to the Claytor boys and
> O.
> > Winston Link himself. I am not interested in
> > hearing Elvis Presley singing “All Shook
> UP”
> > from atop a circus elephant, while Roy Rogers
> is
> > swinging from the elephant’s tail.
>
>
> Assuming everything today is as it was three
> years ago politically and logistically,it still
> takes LOTS of $$$ to finance the trips YOU want to
> see. Would you be there purchasing a ticket if it
> ran every weekend on the same route? Would you
> even be there every weekend spending your $$$ to
> watch it? I’m going to assume the answer to
> those questions is in the negative. That’s how
> many others feel...been there,done that. So,I’ll
> ask you another question...if you,nor I,nor the
> many others who have already seen/ ridden those
> Roanoke trips no longer support said excursions,or
> the local economy,with our presence and $$$,how do
> you expect those trips to be financially
> viable?...with other peoples $$$ but not yours?
> The definition of market saturation is no longer
> able to absorb,in this case,paying customers. Econ
> 101. I’d like to hear your business plan to make
> your request viable. I’m sure if you have a good
> one,the VMT and the citizens of Roanoke would like
> to hear your money making ideas for the 611 too.
>
> Tom
>
> Tom

He and many others wouldn't pay a nickel, they'd be too busy chasing to get their precious 3/4 brainrot shot.

My friends, my friends in T.O. Land. I have spent many, many dollars to ride the third open window car behind 611. In fact, on one such trip, we played leap frog with 1218 on a paralleling coal train. Many motel bills and dinners...even in the Hotel Roanoke, enjoyed the peanut soup in the dinning room, with guests, after a swim in the hotel pool. There is even a restaurant in town called “The 611”. Fun looking at the pictures, models and decorations. My point is...OK. Marketing and Economics 101, (I do have an MBA), I understand about running in foreign territory for new customers, but WHY can’t they run one weekend per year on the hallowed tracks of “The Fading Giant”.

HotWater Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lots of nice lawyer double-talk. Then blame it on
> PTC.

No mincing words, and right to the point. Wish more people communicated like you.

The past 2 years when 611 ran, the first trips were scheduled in Spring, so this news in June isn't surprising. Seems 611 might run this year, anyway, and there's no plan to mothball her, so overall, it doesn't seem like bad news.

Personally, I like PTC being blamed for everything. :-)

SP4360 Wrote:

> He and many others wouldn't pay a nickel, they'd
> be too busy chasing to get their precious 3/4
> brainrot shot.

Unfortunately for recent trips that's the only way you can see and hear 611 perform. Can't do that sealed up in coach.

PatternOfFailure Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Unfortunately for recent trips that's the only way
> you can see and hear 611 perform. Can't do that
> sealed up in coach.

Unfortunately that's true, and why when we rode in 2015 and 2017 we took the morning trip then chased in the afternoon.

It's been discussed many times about how to get more people, especially younger people, interested in trains. All people are visceral and would rather hear/smell/feel the experience to create those memories than just knowing that there's a steam engine pulling their train. I wonder if the market becoming saturated so quickly is partly because the experience just isn't all that great.

Ok....here’s my two cents. Everyone is afraid of getting sued. No open gon riders to hear the noise and feel the cinders sandblasting your face. No open windows. No open Dutch doors. No baggage cars behind the tender with boards across them to hang onto, lean out or climb up the wood for a better look. No walking between cars while the train is in motion. And riding the tender, while sitting in a lawn chair (I have pictures). Shall I go on? Just how are you to get up front and !personal with steam, from a temperature controlled, sound proof tube? And oh, no photo runs. They are too dangerous and delay traffic. Humm, I wonder how the CB&Q did it with 5632 running out of Chicago in my youth?

Keystone1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Humm, I wonder how the CB&Q did it with 5632
> running out of Chicago in my youth?

Back then, neither the railroads nor the country were run/controlled by lawyers.

All of these issues are what drove FWRHS to create the Joliet Rocket last year and this year:

https://fortwaynerailroad.org/the-joliet-rocket-2018/

Open air car limited to 25 people? Check.
Open vestibules? Check.
Up-close-and-personal experience with the engine? Check.
Two trips a day, enough to ride and chase? Check.
High speed running up-to-and-around 60MPH? Check.

The booze and entertainment is just a highlight. Steam has to bridge the gap somehow. These restrictions drive innovation.

Keystone1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ok....here’s my two cents. Everyone is afraid
> of getting sued. No open gon riders to hear the
> noise and feel the cinders sandblasting your face.
> No open windows. No open Dutch doors. No baggage
> cars behind the tender with boards across them to
> hang onto, lean out or climb up the wood for a
> better look. No walking between cars while the
> train is in motion. And riding the tender, while
> sitting in a lawn chair (I have pictures). Shall
> I go on? Just how are you to get up front and
> !personal with steam, from a temperature
> controlled, sound proof tube? And oh, no photo
> runs. They are too dangerous and delay traffic.
> Humm, I wonder how the CB&Q did it with 5632
> running out of Chicago in my youth?

Sounds like you need to check out what the FWRHS is doing. They provide just about everything you said doesn't happen anymore.

Looks like VMT needs to check out what FWRHS is doing.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/19/18 11:38 by Emmo213.

Emmo213 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Looks like VMT needs to check out what FWRHS is
> doing.

It takes a willing host. Norfolk Southern says "no" and CSX says "HELL NO!"

That leaves rather limited options.

Mary McPherson
Dongola, IL
Diverging Clear Productions



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/19/18 16:16 by MaryMcPherson.

MaryMcPherson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Emmo213 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Looks like VMT needs to check out what FWRHS is
> > doing.
>
> It takes a willing host. Norfolk Southern says
> "no" and CSX says "HELL NO!"
>
> That leaves rather limited options.

Well, in fact Norfolk Southern has only said "NO" to excursions, but NOT to ferry moves throughout their system.

The management of CSXT of course has said many times, "HELL NO", even to dead-in-tow moves of steam locomotives.

HotWater Wrote:
> Well, in fact Norfolk Southern has only said "NO"
> to excursions, but NOT to ferry moves throughout
> their system.

The previous train of thought being runbys, open windows, etc.

N.S. wasn't doing those with 21st Century Steam, let alone now. "No."

Mary McPherson
Dongola, IL
Diverging Clear Productions

There was a steam engine operating on CSX within the near past, much more recent than most people realize. Never say never.