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Steam & Excursion > 4014, Lance Fritz and the TRAINS Newsline


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Date: 11/30/18 13:12
4014, Lance Fritz and the TRAINS Newsline
Author: callum_out

And I might add, the bean counters. If you get a chance to read the Newsline, do so. If not (or can't) the synopsis is that
2019 is "big plans" and beyond is uncertain. I think many of us have thought that might be the writing on the wall and I'm
hoping thst indeed if the economy does slow down that the program goes into mothballs and not the deep freeze.

Out



Date: 11/30/18 15:18
Re: 4014, Lance Fritz and the TRAINS Newsline
Author: Keystone1

Well.....I remember Graham Claytor, pontificate on microphone, in front of railroad fans at a convention....”the steam locomotive is here to stay”. So guys...how did that work out.     Just saying...



Date: 11/30/18 15:47
Re: 4014, Lance Fritz and the TRAINS Newsline
Author: Copy19

Thanks to TRAINS we finally have comments on the steam program from the Chairman.  Get your fix in 2019...
JB



Date: 11/30/18 18:22
Re: 4014, Lance Fritz and the TRAINS Newsline
Author: HotWater

Copy19 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks to TRAINS we finally have comments on the
> steam program from the Chairman.  Get your fix in
> 2019...
> JB

And you really believe that?



Date: 11/30/18 18:31
Re: 4014, Lance Fritz and the TRAINS Newsline
Author: callum_out

It's an expensive program with little tangible results and as mentioned by Fritz the primary interest seems to
be with railfans. At the moment and most likely until the 2019 hoopla that would be classified as "sacred cow".

Out



Date: 11/30/18 19:31
Re: 4014, Lance Fritz and the TRAINS Newsline
Author: Spoony81

The death of the woman on the tracks during the Frontier Days Trip probably didn’t help matters any either.

Posted from iPhone



Date: 11/30/18 19:40
Re: 4014, Lance Fritz and the TRAINS Newsline
Author: Keystone1

Get you pictures in 2019. You have been warned.



Date: 11/30/18 20:59
Re: 4014, Lance Fritz and the TRAINS Newsline
Author: randyr

I am grateful for all the times I had a chance to see and ride behind 844(4) and 3985. My dad would take me see 8444 in Denver starting in the late 1960s. Rode behind 3985 Salt Lake to Provo with my 8.5 month pregnant wife in 1982 and took my youngest son to see and ride excursions behind both engines several times up until the 2012 Arizona Centennial Special. So, great memories, but, thinking about it, how many times over the past few years has either locomotive been on the road generating positive PR for the UP? That is a pretty expensive program for one appearance a year, and only between Denver and Cheyenne. I would assume a few years ago, the Steam Program and its supporters within the UP, could point to the positive PR in the press and the intangible asset of "goodwill" the program brought to the UP. Now, in this era of beancounting, I bet it is getting more difficult to justify the expense of the program. True confession, I am a beancounter by profession. It is not my intent to bash the program, just thinking outside of my railfan box. 

Many years ago while working a summer job on the "Heber Creeper" tourist line in Utah, my boss and I were discussing plans to take time off to go see 8444/3985 double-head through Weber Canyon on their way to Sacramento and Railfair 1981. He said we needed to take the time because the day would come when UP would decide to cancel the program and put 8444 on a slab of concrete on display in Cheyenne. I said he was nuts, but I fear his words may come true. I agree with others, get your pics while you can.

Randy in PHX



Date: 11/30/18 21:31
Re: 4014, Lance Fritz and the TRAINS Newsline
Author: MJV1988

It would seem extremely silly for a big company like UP to spend god knows how much on the 4014 alone and then mothball it a year later. But crazy things have happened before. Only time will tell!

Posted from Android



Date: 11/30/18 21:39
Re: 4014, Lance Fritz and the TRAINS Newsline
Author: ATSFSuperChief

Different steam crew now, old steam crew kept everything, 844, 3985, E units, DD40X and snow blower running and ready to meet schedules as Steve Lee predicted by following all FRA rules. New crew put 3985 out of commission, damaged 844 by sliding wheels, set E unit and DD40X maintenance to North Platte, spent a long time getting 844 running again. A simple review of program by accountants would reveal much greater cost per display of equipment. And that makes it much harder for the UP Board to justify the continuance of that fine program.
I was a steam engineer on large maritime vessels, up to 120,000 rated horsepower on high speed container ships and 50,000 HP 225,000 ton VLCC's and also did very many shipyard periods including many large boiler and turbine repairs and know what manhours and costs can be involved. And I had to keep the accountants happy, sometimes a not very easy occurrences.

I rode the Thursday train taking 844 to Denver to stage for Frontier Days and UP had business customers on board who really seemed to enjoy the ride from Cheyenne to either Greeley or Denver. Hopefully the Promontory Event with both 844 and 4014 occurs successfully with a great amount of feedback from UP customers and not only from railfans but also from UP stockholders and that includes me.

SuperChiefDon



Date: 11/30/18 21:41
Re: 4014, Lance Fritz and the TRAINS Newsline
Author: CPRR

Sorry, did not know we couldn't copy the text from the TRAINS website.



Date: 11/30/18 23:10
Re: 4014, Lance Fritz and the TRAINS Newsline
Author: CaliforniaSteam

MJV1988 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It would seem extremely silly for a big company
> like UP to spend god knows how much on the 4014
> alone and then mothball it a year later. But crazy
> things have happened before. Only time will tell!
>
> Posted from Android

The UP can and will do things like that. Hire massive amounts of people spend tens of thousands of dollars training them and then lay them off before they work their first trip by themselves, this just one example.

CS



Date: 12/01/18 05:44
Re: 4014, Lance Fritz and the TRAINS Newsline
Author: Keystone1

I for one, have waited and wished my whole life, since a kid, to see a Big Boy steam.  This is it.  Do or die.  May 2019.  Now or never.  Be there or be nowhere.



Date: 12/01/18 06:29
Re: 4014, Lance Fritz and the TRAINS Newsline
Author: RailRat

Any links available? Or is that also Taboo?

Jim Baker
Riverside, CA



Date: 12/01/18 07:31
Re: 4014, Lance Fritz and the TRAINS Newsline
Author: CPRR

RailRat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Any links available? Or is that also Taboo?

I do not know. I can tell you that I copied the text, pasted it, and now it is gone. Est Forbodden!

http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2018/11/30-union-pacific-remains-committed-to-steam-program-for-now-ceo-lance-fritz-says



Date: 12/01/18 07:52
Re: 4014, Lance Fritz and the TRAINS Newsline
Author: dan

sky isn't falling is what i gathered from reading it



Date: 12/01/18 08:17
Re: 4014, Lance Fritz and the TRAINS Newsline
Author: JLW2K

Hopefully heritage and history outweigh appeasing the board and stockholders with another small slice of savings.

Also makes me wonder if the Steve Lee approach was to minimize costs, lie low and just keep locomotives running after restoration (thus the condition Ed Dickens showed at presentations with deterioration in some areas and the old flooring with the wrench embossed into the floor).  All for the effort of making sure the program is never mothballed.  Whereas Ed Dickens approach might be a tip to tail restoration and renewal of all components on 844 and 4014 and press his luck a bit with the budget.

-J



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/01/18 09:14 by JLW2K.



Date: 12/01/18 10:49
Re: 4014, Lance Fritz and the TRAINS Newsline
Author: Frisco1522

Far too much money spent on the steam program.  Rebuilding shop machinery, new parts galore, old parts scrapped and the elusive pursuit of perfection.  There is a point when a line is crossed spending millions on things that operate only a couple of times a year now.  For all who said that its nice to have the UP's checkbook, there is a limit past which it draws excessive attention.  This can't be a surprise to anyone.



Date: 12/01/18 14:11
Re: 4014, Lance Fritz and the TRAINS Newsline
Author: dbesade

Keystone1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Get you pictures in 2019. You have been warned.

Good advice in general. Times change, leaders change, public opinion changes. Nothing I read in the newswire causes me any concern with regards to the future of the program. I think a good number of people commenting here should remember the Union Pacific Company is a large corporation... and honestly the numbers being thrown around in the steam shop and on the program are mere pennies in the pocket. I'll admit to some operations I'm sure the expenditures look enormous. The cost of restoring the USSG #148 (which S. Lindsay's team is doing) is basically a frame off rebuild with a new boiler, firebox, some frame repair, roller bearing conversion... the works is likely in the same ballpark as the 4014. Corporates have deeper pockets than museums and therefore spend more. All about perspective... look at what the UP CEO said " It’s not that big of an asset burden." and "So it’s not like the math is complex. But we’re not even worried about that math right now."

Some people here would look a gifted horse in the mouth...

Regards,

Dave



Date: 12/01/18 15:18
Re: 4014, Lance Fritz and the TRAINS Newsline
Author: callum_out

Dave, it's very obvious that you've never had direct business dealings with the UP.

Out



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