Steam & Excursion > D&SNG blamed for fires; sticking taxpayers for costs

Today’s Durango Herald is carrying a story citing forest service records that the Durango & Silverton Narrow Gauge Railroad has “a long history” of starting forest fires and not paying the full cost of extinguishing them.  The taxpayers pay the rest.  The article complains that the railroad usually denies its steam locomotives are the cause and negotiates cheaper settlements.

Overall the report is very negative.  Bad news.

https://durangoherald.com/articles/254465-taxpayers-pay-half-the-costs-when-durangosilverton-train-starts-fires



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/15/18 10:36 by Copy19.

Somebody's opinion, not necessarily fact. Should never stand up in court. You or I could be camping in the vicinity of the tracks and not fully extinguish our campfire by carelessness, knowing the nearby railroad would get blamed if anything happened, or for whatever warped reason do it on purpose figuring the same thing. How is that opinion proven, heck perhaps one of his buddies or he himself started the fire, and after seeing the magnitude of the result, are trying their best to whitewash the public out of self-preservation. Neither scenario can be proven or disproven. === === = === JLH



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/15/18 09:06 by highgreengraphics.

highgreengraphics Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Somebody's opinion, not necessarily fact. Should
> never stand up in court. You or I could be camping
> in the vicinity of the tracks and not fully
> extinguish our campfire by carelessness, knowing
> the nearby railroad would get blamed if anything
> happened, or for whatever warped reason do it on
> purpose figuring the same thing. How is that
> opinion proven, heck perhaps one of his buddies or
> he himself started the fire, and after seeing the
> magnitude of the result, are trying their best to
> whitewash the public out of self-preservation.
> Neither scenario can be proven or disproven. ===
> === = === JLH
Things don't always have to be proven in the Court of Public Opinion, which in this case will probably be very important.
Bill Pyper
Salem, Oregon
 

There has been an anti-railroad element in Durango for several years, citing smoke and noise.  Without the narrow gauge things will become very, very quiet in Durango and especially Silverton,  People are going to drive all that way to see what?  Silverton, July 19, 2017.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/15/18 13:49 by Copy19.

---

It seems to me that sometime back their was a local upraising about how bad the D&S was to the community
mostly brought by folks who came into town as transplants.  The railroad voluntarily shut down the railroad
for a period of time and the impact on the town's finances was more then apparent.  Once the D&S reopened
there weren't any major problems.  Haven't visited this area many, many times I can attest to the actual
measures they produce to make their journeys trouble free.  I wish them well as they defend their case.

Hey Forest Service, what about the crap job you do about managing a forest?

Out

callum_out Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hey Forest Service, what about the crap job you do
> about managing a forest?
>
> Out

Secretary of the Interior just got canned. You volunteering to take over so you can tell the Forest Service how to do their job?

I wonder how much property tax the DS&NG pays annually...seems they should get some fire protection service to offset the tax they pay ?

Dick Samuels
Oregon Pacific Rail

The railroad was there way before any of these people were. If they didn't like the railroad they shouldn't have moved there or get out now. There is so much more now to burn down than in the past.  C&T doesn't seem to have this issue. But there isn't much property development at either end either.

I will. I've been on many USFS incidents. Poorly run, Horribly expensive and ineffective tactics. I would put any volunteer fire dept against a usfs crew any day. The USFS is a bureaucracy and not a fire fighting agency and should never pretend they are. Really, they should have all Fire fighting remover from their operation. You cant have an agency that wants to put out fire, yet doesn't want to put out fire, thinks there needs to be fire, yet doesn't want fire. I was on a incident a few years ago where there was a incident camp set up with over 2000 people assigned to the incident, a 3 fire complex burning on the incident, millions spend, trucks coming and going and a full city set up with food, showers and the like for 2 months, And yet there was not a single fire engine, or water tender on the fire. They were just observing the fire. "managing it". This is just a sample. I have many friends in the forest service, but dont respect their agency on bit.

PHall Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Secretary of the Interior just got canned. You
> volunteering to take over so you can tell the
> Forest Service how to do their job?

The US Forestry Service is in the Department of Agriculture, not Interior.

It's true that whatever hits the public eye is usually what sticks in their mind. Truthful or not, that damage has been done.

That said, what can be done arguing about it on this forum? Write the city and ride the D&S. I am this summer to see the SPNG engine in steam.

Also true that the NIMBYs would care less if there wasn't anything in town. They have their money and don't have a thought as to how economys work or to the livelihood of the thousands of people who have called DRO home for decades.

Posted from Android

While the importance of the D & SNG to Durango's economy should not be minimized, it is not the only attraction which brings visitors to Durango.  Durango's proximity to Mesa Verde National Park makes it a gateway community where visitors can stay before and after visiting the park.

Additionally, here's a list of 100 things to do in Durango, a few of which involve the railroad.

https://www.durango.org/blog/post/100-ways-to-spend-summer-in-durango-2018



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/15/18 17:32 by RuleG.

I lived in Colorado several years ago when the Haman Fire burnt a number of buildings and many thousand of acres in  the mountains above Colorado Springs. There was an Air Force C-130 outfit stationed at Peterson AFB in Colorado Springs that had six planes equipped with a slide in water bomber units to assist the forest service in fighting forest fires. As I recall it was about three or four days into the fire before they got authorization to go into actions. A TV news crew interviewed the commanding officer as to why they weren't going into action. He explained  there was this specific chain of authority approval procedure that had to go up through the forest service and then to the Pentagon and back before he could put his planes in the air. You could see the smoke from the AFB! All the time they waited the fire kept getting bigger. And to make matters worse it turned out the fire was set by a forest service employee.

Charlie

TomG Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I will. I've been on many USFS incidents. Poorly
> run, Horribly expensive and ineffective tactics. I
> would put any volunteer fire dept against a usfs
> crew any day. The USFS is a bureaucracy and not a
> fire fighting agency and should never pretend they
> are. Really, they should have all Fire fighting
> remover from their operation. You cant have an
> agency that wants to put out fire, yet doesn't
> want to put out fire, thinks there needs to be
> fire, yet doesn't want fire. I was on a incident a
> few years ago where there was a incident camp set
> up with over 2000 people assigned to the incident,
> a 3 fire complex burning on the incident, millions
> spend, trucks coming and going and a full city set
> up with food, showers and the like for 2 months,
> And yet there was not a single fire engine, or
> water tender on the fire. They were just observing
> the fire. "managing it". This is just a sample. I
> have many friends in the forest service, but dont
> respect their agency on bit.

1019X Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I lived in Colorado several years ago when the
> Haman Fire burnt a number of buildings and many
> thousand of acres in  the mountains above
> Colorado Springs. There was an Air Force C-130
> outfit stationed at Peterson AFB in Colorado
> Springs that had six planes equipped with a slide
> in water bomber units to assist the forest service
> in fighting forest fires. As I recall it was about
> three or four days into the fire before they got
> authorization to go into actions. A TV news crew
> interviewed the commanding officer as to why they
> weren't going into action. He explained  there
> was this specific chain of authority approval
> procedure that had to go up through the forest
> service and then to the Pentagon and back before
> he could put his planes in the air. You could see
> the smoke from the AFB! All the time they waited
> the fire kept getting bigger. And to make matters
> worse it turned out the fire was set by a forest
> service employee.
>
> Charlie
>
> TomG Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I will. I've been on many USFS incidents.
> Poorly
> > run, Horribly expensive and ineffective tactics.
> I
> > would put any volunteer fire dept against a
> usfs
> > crew any day. The USFS is a bureaucracy and not
> a
> > fire fighting agency and should never pretend
> they
> > are. Really, they should have all Fire
> fighting
> > remover from their operation. You cant have an
> > agency that wants to put out fire, yet doesn't
> > want to put out fire, thinks there needs to be
> > fire, yet doesn't want fire. I was on a incident
> a
> > few years ago where there was a incident camp
> set
> > up with over 2000 people assigned to the
> incident,
> > a 3 fire complex burning on the incident,
> millions
> > spend, trucks coming and going and a full city
> set
> > up with food, showers and the like for 2
> months,
> > And yet there was not a single fire engine,
> or
> > water tender on the fire. They were just
> observing
> > the fire. "managing it". This is just a sample.
> I
> > have many friends in the forest service, but
> dont
> > respect their agency on bit.

They can not use the MAFFS II equipped military C-130's or National Guard Helecopters until all civilian contractor equipment is in use.
The object is to not take work away from the civilian contractors. This is a Federal requirement. The Forest Service, National Park Service and the Military have no say in this matter at all.
Please send your complaints and concerns to your local Congresscritter. They're the only one's who can change the law.

In September, I rode one of the first trains in months all the way to Silverton.  Many, many locals were waving at us in the first few miles.  My girlfriend was asking why it's such a big deal.  I figured train loads of people coming back to Durango are spending a lot and kick starting the local economy.

Stan Praisewater

many locals know how much the train means to the area, others don't care

I noticed that they mentioned the 416 fire. Did they forget about this little article published in June? https://durangoherald.com/articles/228774

Check_A1E_Perf Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Also true that the NIMBYs would care less if there
> wasn't anything in town. They have their money and
> don't have a thought as to how economys work or to
> the livelihood of the thousands of people who have
> called DRO home for decades.
>
> Posted from Android

This paragraph pretty much sums up whats going on..... the best statement in this thread. 

CS

Very few know that someone who starts a fire no matter the reason can be on the hook for its suppresion and rehab work.  The railroad is doing what anyother person would do or have done for them to not pay the full bill if possible.