Steam & Excursion > Rock Island 4-8-4 at coaling tower, lots of smoke ('52)

Rock 4-8-4 #5116 @ Bureau, IL on 4/17/52

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Brute!! Who needs articulateds when you've got those around, shot is a wonderful argument for
overfire jets.

Out

callum_out Wrote:
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> Brute!! Who needs articulateds when you've got
> those around, shot is a wonderful argument for
> overfire jets.
>
> Out

Not so sure that overfire jets work all that well with absolutely NO LOAD, and just the blower on. Somebody may be running the stoker while the Fireman is taking water.

Would encourage the draft some, maybe combust soime of that unburned carbon exiting the stack. But your
point on lack of load is well taken.

Out

Baldwin or ALCO?  Looks like an ALCO to me...and the Rock Island had some of the best looking Northerns.  Wish I could have seen them on the Golden State Route roaring thru towns, hauling perishables...

Alco.  The 5100 was built in 1944, so they were late steamers.

Rock Island 4-8-4 freight locos were mighty brutes.

Bob Krieger
Cheyenne, WY

Now THAT is a good looking engine and a great scene.  Thanks for posting it.  I always liked this iteration of the ALCO 4-8-4 best.

coach Wrote:
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> Baldwin or ALCO?  Looks like an ALCO to me...and
> the Rock Island had some of the best looking
> Northerns.  Wish I could have seen them on the
> Golden State Route roaring thru towns, hauling
> perishables...

All of the RI's Northerns were Alcos. If I remember correctly, Alco was represented on the
RI BOD.
zr190

Easy to identify Baldwins from Alcos; if fitted with pilot-mounted air compressos.
Baldwin “compressor shields’ have  rounded tops, like ‘knees’,  on their compressor shields ( See Reading 4-8-4s, 2100s) ,
Alco has flat tops, bent back at  30-deg. angle, with inner edges tapered towards the tops, similar on Lima’s, too..

They may have, or not , been equipped with finned, lateral pipes, air cooling radiarors, mounted between the pump shields  Baldwin often used open mesh-like covers I front of the radiators ,
Alco tended to use louvered, flat metal doors over their radiator pipes.
Depended on design preferences of purchasing customers..

W.

coach Wrote:
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> Baldwin or ALCO?  Looks like an ALCO to me...and
> the Rock Island had some of the best looking
> Northerns.  Wish I could have seen them on the
> Golden State Route roaring thru towns, hauling
> perishables...

coach-- Here you go!  Some out-of-state travelers claim Kansas isn't worth much, so therefore want to speed past he state lines ASAP.  If only they could have been here back when steam was still the "prime mover" on the Rock Island.  
Here are some shots of the RI 5000's and 5100's when they were pulling the freights with Pacific Fruit Express (PFE's), either loaded eastbound with California refrigerated merchandise (veggies & fruits), or empty westbound PFE "drags" or the likewise in mixed freights.  On a day with high southwestern winds, these "drags" would be lucky to make 35 MPH, therefore their name.  In addition to the loaded eastbound PFE's there were seasonal specials of Railway Express Agency (REA) cars, usually 20 or so cars, loaded with cherries or other sensative produce.  I can still recall the aroma of these passing cherries as well as the PFE's with cantalope running past with opened ice hatches mixed with the smell of steam and oil.
I credit rail photographer Otto Perry and the Denver Public Library for these photos taken in Southwestern Kansas on the Golden State Line of the Rock Island Lines.  I was fortunate as a youngster in the late 40's and early 50's, toward the end of steam, to witness these great "oil burners".  These trains either met or left the Southern Pacific at Tucumcari, NM on the west end.  Hope you enjoy!

1- RI 5103 WB Mullinville, KS on passing siding after an EB train had just passed.
2- RI 5103 WB Mullinville, KS on as leaving the passing siding onto mainline after an EB train had just passed.
3- RI 5103 WB Mullinville, KS on mainline close and heading toward Liberal KS.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/10/19 16:48 by rrman6.

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1- RI5109 REA Express Special EB at Mullinville, KS.
2- RI5102 sitting on passing siding with an EB mixed freight at Kingsdown, KS.

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RI5064 EB with 81 cars of loaded PFE's near Liberal, KS area.
RI5035 EB with 88 cars of loaded PFE's near Hayne, KS area.
Ri5036 WB "drag" with 100 cars of empty PFE's leaving Liberal, KS.

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nycman Wrote:
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> Alco.  The 5100 was built in 1944, so they were
> late steamers.

Yes, in steam days the Rock Island was a VERY loyal Alco customer.

BTW, while 5100 itself was built in 1944, there were actually TWO orders of these exceedingly handsome brutes:

• RI 5100-5109, built in 1944 as oil burners and generally used west/south of Kansas City.
• RI 5110-5119, built in 1946 as coal burners for use north/east of KC. All of this class were also equipped with cab signals for running across Illinois between Blue Island and Silvis. These were the final steam locomotives delivered to the RI and were retired within SIX years (1952). Some of them never even made it to their first heavy overhaul.

For all their handsomeness, stories have circulated for years that engine crews preferred the rebuilt 5000-series 4-8-4s over the 5100s as the older engiines supposedly were better steaming. Being as how all these marvelous beasts were razor blades several years before I was born, I have no way to positively confirm or deny that.

Great shots of a great railroad (no, not the horrendously over-used "M***** F*** L*** )!!

NZ

SRI at Owosso, Mich., has a Rock Island tender on site that is used as an auxiliary tank from time to time behind No. 1225..  It might be from one of these 4-8-4's.

NKP779 Wrote:
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> SRI at Owosso, Mich., has a Rock Island tender on
> site that is used as an auxiliary tank from time
> to time behind No. 1225..  It might be from one
> of these 4-8-4's.

The SRI website shows and describes this Rock Island tender as one from one of the RI 5000 series, but I beg to differ.  I'm basing my thoughts on the style and rivet pattern for the fuel bunker.  I realize the Rock Island modified their 5000 series tenders to increase the water capacity, but they always used the Commenwealth style trucks.  The Rock Island 5100 series "oil burners" used the Buckeye style trucks, plus they had an obvious rivet pattern on the sides near where the rear of the fuel bunker would likely be.  I'm unsure of this pattern on their "coal burners" but I don't believe it showed on them from what photos I've seen.  
The RI modified some of these 4-8-4 tenders for their fuel service and may have modified the top sides of the fuel areas to make a straight line to the front end.like what the SRI #1225 auxiliary has.  I'm attaching photos to show the angled rivet pattern I've spoken of.  This shows on the SRI photo as well as the RI5108 tender, one of which was used along with the 5000 series tender.  This latter tender was between the plow and the 5108 tender on the rear.  I was forunate to take these side and topside photos in Nov. 1962 while the plow consist was still in existence and stationed in Goodland, KS on the Western Division.  The photos aren't the greatest, as my Kodak 'Brownie' was all I owned at the time.  Hope you enjoy!

1- SRI Tender as on their website.
2- SRI Tender w/ Buckeye trucks.
3- SRI/RI 5100 Tender showing angled rivet pattern on side as on a RI 5100 series locos.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/11/19 18:56 by rrman6.

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4- RI5100's Angled Rivet line (shown on Ri5108 rotary plow consist; (note the Buckeye trucks)
5- RI5108 tender topside showing partial engine number 5108.
6- RI Rotary Plow Consist w/ 5000 & 5100 series tenders- Goodland, KS Nov. 1962



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/11/19 19:18 by rrman6.

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7- RI Rotary Plow Tender-5000 Series Steamer (w/ NO ANGLED RIVET LINES); just a lenghtwise score line showing; (note Commenwealth trucks).
8- RI Rotary Plow Tender-ex 5000 4-8-4 Tender, topside looking forward.
 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/11/19 19:21 by rrman6.

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Great stuff. I have traveled the long open tangents across Kansas, Oklahoma and Texas and imagined what it was like when 4-8-4's ruled the lands. While much is made of the fine Northern type machines of Santa Fe, Union Pacific and other Western roads in this era, Rock Island had the largest fleet (85) of these locomotives in the United States, was second to Canadian National Railroad in North America and third to the USSR worldwide. The long trains and straight runs were a match to their ability.  

Boy, it would be nice if 765 ever comes back to Chicago to run over Metra's Rock Island District if SRI could loan them this aux tender and some creeative use of vinyl decals could let a REAL Rock Island steam loco tender touch home rails again!

As long as I'm here, thought I would also offer a thought on the great Otto Perry's photography. I am eternally grateful he captured the images he did and many thaks for the Denver Public Library for saving and making his collection available to enjoy.

As a former darkroom technician, though, God, how i wish sometimes Otto had left his prints in "the soup" (developer) a bit longer! I get that he was trying to show as much detail as possible, like many rail photographers of the era, but it often resulted in the overall photo being light or lacking in contrast.

If you will indulge me, here are a couple of Otto's shots from up-thread where I tired to bring out what the scene might have actually looked like, with, of course, some VERY judicious dodging and burning to preserve the locomotive details:

1. RI 5035 East at Hayne, KS Feb. 9, 1941
2. RI 5036 West near Liberal, KS January 20, 1939
3. RI 5064 East near Liberal, KS, sane date as No. 1.

I'll be posting one more of the 5100s just to give that class of engines some love...

I hope no one is offended by my litttle experiment. It is NOT my intention in any way to diminish Mr. Perry's work. He was only doing what was considered standard practice at the time and cannot be faulted for that.

All photos credit to Otto Perry and the Denver Public Library collection.

NZ

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