Steam & Excursion > Hancock & other whistle drawings

Stumbled into the Atkinson Stanley steamer webpage, and found several drawings of whistles with dimensions. Notice on the top drawing on the right side, it gives dimensions for "extra long" Hancock whistes. I didn't know a longer version was available. (My "Frisco" Hancock is even longer yet) The lower drawing has dimensions for the short bell three chime, with dimensions for the long bell in red. There are other drawings of other locomotive type whistles, and valves.  https://bruceatkinson.com/stanley/whistledrawings.shtml

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I've never seen an mention of an extra long bell but here is a short bell Hancock, in a step-top and a flat-top version. By the way, the lever on the long-bell has been cut down. I should be even with the top of the bell. The lever on the flat-top has been bent. I should be pointing straight up.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/19 09:08 by crackerjackhoghead.

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What RR/engine did the bell with the bent lever come from?
There might be a ‘ mounting orientation’ explanation.
( It reminds me of a PRR whistle...)

W.

wcamp1472 Wrote:
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> What RR/engine did the bell with the bent lever
> come from?
> There might be a ‘ mounting orientation’
> explanation.
> ( It reminds me of a PRR whistle...)
>
> W.

Wes,
  I don't recall where that one was from but the Western Pacific seems to have been the largest user of these short-bell Hancocks.

Does anyone here know what the dimensions for a Rock Island 4-8-4 5000 or 5100 series Alco engine was?  I'm thinking these were either Hancock or Nathan whistles.

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I always thought Rock Island used Hancocks. Those in the photos look like the flat top version. Hancock replaced those with the step top design in 1938.

Posted from Android

My Dad always called the long bell Frisco whistles "Nathans".  Our whistle on 1522 had no markings to tell us who made it.  We also put an IC long bell on it once in a while.  Identical to ours, but didn't sound the same.  Go figure.

Frisco1522 Wrote:
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 We also put an IC long
> bell on it once in a while.  Identical to ours,
> but didn't sound the same.  Go figure.

The diameter of the bell and the wall thickness is not the same. all of these factors play a role, not just the length of the chambers.

The Frisco made their own whistles, the flat-tops, step-tops and 6-chimes, all made in house. They do look similar to a Hancock though. The flat-top, in the second photo is a Frico bell on one of my bowls.

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It's not an 'extra long' Hancock but mine is bigger.  Just sayin'...

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WHOA!!

ya gotta be careful...

W.😃

Wow, that's a big one for sure. You could cut that one up in thirds, and still have some left over.  This IC moaner is the largest one I have in a small collection. The bell is 18-1/2" in length, not counting the top cap.

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crackerjackhoghead Wrote:
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> The diameter of the bell and the wall thickness is
> not the same. all of these factors play a role,
> not just the length of the chambers.
>
> The Frisco made their own whistles, the flat-tops,
> step-tops and 6-chimes, all made in house. They do
> look similar to a Hancock though. The flat-top, in
> the second photo is a Frisco bell on one of my
> bowls.

I can understand the wall thickness and diameter making some differences.  I also realize materials varied between brass/bronze and cast iron/steel.  Just curious...did the brass vs. the cast iron make a notable difference affecting the tone?
You noted Hancock replaced the 'flat top' style with the 'step top' style after 1938.  The Rock Island 5100 series engines were produced by ALCO in 1944 and 1946, but these whistles appear as flat tops.  As new engines, I'd thought these whistles would have been supplied by ALCO, but possibly they were using pre-1938 stock from their warehouse!!? 

They might be something other than Hancock whistles, but similar. Or, they could have fitted out new engines on delivery & set up, from a supply of new or reconditioned whistles. Its possible they made their own whistles, and stuck with the flat top design.

Posted from Android

Frisco1522 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My Dad always called the long bell Frisco whistles
> "Nathans".  Our whistle on 1522 had no markings
> to tell us who made it.  We also put an IC long
> bell on it once in a while.  Identical to ours,
> but didn't sound the same.  Go figure.

Adding to an old thread, I had some of my whistles apart today, and remembered what you said about 1522's whistle sounding different when they replaced it's flat top bell, with an IC flat top.  I put both the bells on the scale, and while their dimensions are almost the same, the the IC bell weights 35.5 lbs without top cap, while the Frisco bell, only weights 24.8 lbs without top cap. All other things equal, that is probably why they didn't sound quite the same, The Frisco's has thinner walls.

LocoPilot750 Wrote:
> Adding to an old thread, I had some of my whistles
> apart today, and remembered what you said about
> 1522's whistle sounding different when they
> replaced it's flat top bell, with an IC flat
> top.  I put both the bells on the scale, and
> while their dimensions are almost the same, the
> the IC bell weights 35.5 lbs without top cap,
> while the Frisco bell, only weights 24.8 lbs
> without top cap. All other things equal, that is
> probably why they didn't sound quite the same, The
> Frisco's has thinner walls.

The different whistles hit different notes with different overtones.  I'd be curious what the difference in length of the chimes is between the two whistles.  I'm sure the outer wall thickness has a bearing on the whistle's overtones, as does the wear (or lack thereof) of the distributor plate (for lack of a better term) on the bowl.

One thing I can say for sure is that wear in the distributor plate has a big impact on the way the whistle sounds.  The IC whistle I bought for Monticello tended to shriek a lot when used at Dollywood and on Western Maryland Scenic 734; I found video of it in use on YouTube.  As soon as it arrived at the museum it was disassembled, and that plate was found to be seriously steam cut.  A new replacement was machined for it and installed.  Guess what: it doesn't screech anymore.  And it's not for trying on my part.

I should do a video comparing different whistle recordings, however I am at the hotel on the road and don't have my hard-drive packed with goodies on me today.

Mary McPherson
Dongola, IL
Diverging Clear Productions



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/02/21 14:27 by MaryMcPherson.

Good points Mary. While I had them apart, I decided to measure them up, and here is what I came up with. The inside chamber lengths for the Frisco flat top are 17-7/8, 14-7/8, and 12-3/8. Bell diameter is 6-1/8, and the top of the arch is 2-5/8. Total length of the bell is 18-1/4.... For the Illinois Central flat top, chamber lengths are 18-1/2, 15-1/4. and 12-7/8. Bell diameter is 6-9/16, and top of arch is 2-1/2. Total length of the bell is 18-3/8. So, besides wall thickness and weight, they seem to be two completely different whistles, made for two different valves. They might look the same, but as you can see, there are as slightly different as the sounds they make.

Just for my own information, and memory, was/is the whistle on SP&S 700 a Hancock step-top design? Also, was the Northern Pacific whistle, which replaced the SP&S whistle on 4449, the same type of Hancock step-top? Lastly, were the original SP GS class whistles Hancock step-top type, even though equipped with the Vilco air operated steam supply valve?

Thanks.

In March of '17 I was in Portland, and got to visit 700 & 4449. 700 had a step top Hancock at the time, I don't know what it had before or after that. I've only seen photos and posts here about 4449's whistle, but from I understand, it originally had a flat top Hancock. On 2nd thought, if 4449 was built in 1941, wouldn't it have had a step top Hancock ? They replaced the flat top in 1938.

Posted from Android



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/03/21 06:05 by LocoPilot750.