Steam & Excursion > Hanging out the window.

Recently, I was fortunate enough to have been able to sit in what was left of the engineers seat of the 4004, looking forward out of the window visibility of the locomotive was roughly half way to the front and had obviously no line of sight to the divers or valve gear or anything else as the running boards are in the way. This leads me to believe there is somewhat of a necessity to have to lean out the window at least periodically to be able to monitor operations and to be able to see part of the pilot. To me it would be a very uncomfortable feeling not knowing where or being able to see where the front of the locomotive is. Has anyone here had the opportunity to sit in the engineers seat of a 4000? I have also sat in the engineers seat of the 3985 it too has limitations but to me a 4000 is much worse.

Posted from Android

bankshotone Wrote:
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> Recently, I was fortunate enough to have been able
> to sit in what was left of the engineers seat of
> the 4004, looking forward out of the window
> visibility of the locomotive was roughly half way
> to the front and had obviously no line of sight to
> the divers or valve gear or anything else as the
> running boards are in the way. This leads me to
> believe there is somewhat of a necessity to have
> to lean out the window at least periodically to be
> able to monitor operations and to be able to see
> part of the pilot. To me it would be a very
> uncomfortable feeling not knowing where or being
> able to see where the front of the locomotive is.
> Has anyone here had the opportunity to sit in the
> engineers seat of a 4000? I have also sat in the
> engineers seat of the 3985 it too has limitations
> but to me a 4000 is much worse.

Well, simply "sitting in the Engineer's seat" really doesn't give you any feel for what being out on the road at speed is like. Neither the Engineer nor the Fireman really need to "see where the pilot is" or "see where the front of the locomotive is", unless you are entering a yard and proceeding through switches. Out on the main line, you are far more concerned with what is way ahead, such as signals, road crossings, bridges, etc.. Besides, anything that is too close to the front end, and thus disappears from either the Engineer's or Fireman's line of sight,,,,,,,,is run over anyway.

bankshotone Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Recently, I was fortunate enough to have been able
> to sit in what was left of the engineers seat of
> the 4004, looking forward out of the window
> visibility of the locomotive was roughly half way
> to the front and had obviously no line of sight to
> the divers or valve gear or anything else as the
> running boards are in the way. This leads me to
> believe there is somewhat of a necessity to have
> to lean out the window at least periodically to be
> able to monitor operations and to be able to see
> part of the pilot. To me it would be a very
> uncomfortable feeling not knowing where or being
> able to see where the front of the locomotive is.
> Has anyone here had the opportunity to sit in the
> engineers seat of a 4000? I have also sat in the
> engineers seat of the 3985 it too has limitations
> but to me a 4000 is much worse.
>
> Posted from Android

So what is the reason a certain someone leans out while at the throttle of a shorter #844?
 

Spoony81 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> bankshotone Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Recently, I was fortunate enough to have been
> able
> > to sit in what was left of the engineers seat
> of
> > the 4004, looking forward out of the window
> > visibility of the locomotive was roughly half
> way
> > to the front and had obviously no line of sight
> to
> > the divers or valve gear or anything else as
> the
> > running boards are in the way. This leads me to
> > believe there is somewhat of a necessity to
> have
> > to lean out the window at least periodically to
> be
> > able to monitor operations and to be able to
> see
> > part of the pilot. To me it would be a very
> > uncomfortable feeling not knowing where or
> being
> > able to see where the front of the locomotive
> is.
> > Has anyone here had the opportunity to sit in
> the
> > engineers seat of a 4000? I have also sat in
> the
> > engineers seat of the 3985 it too has
> limitations
> > but to me a 4000 is much worse.
> >
> > Posted from Android
>
> So what is the reason a certain someone leans out
> while at the throttle of a shorter #844?
>

I have never sat in the engineers seat in a 800 so I can't offer personal opinion.
That being said,
I wouldn't know why other than to monitor the gear below.

bankshotone Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Spoony81 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > bankshotone Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Recently, I was fortunate enough to have been
> > able
> > > to sit in what was left of the engineers seat
> > of
> > > the 4004, looking forward out of the window
> > > visibility of the locomotive was roughly half
> > way
> > > to the front and had obviously no line of
> sight
> > to
> > > the divers or valve gear or anything else as
> > the
> > > running boards are in the way. This leads me
> to
> > > believe there is somewhat of a necessity to
> > have
> > > to lean out the window at least periodically
> to
> > be
> > > able to monitor operations and to be able to
> > see
> > > part of the pilot. To me it would be a very
> > > uncomfortable feeling not knowing where or
> > being
> > > able to see where the front of the locomotive
> > is.
> > > Has anyone here had the opportunity to sit in
> > the
> > > engineers seat of a 4000? I have also sat in
> > the
> > > engineers seat of the 3985 it too has
> > limitations
> > > but to me a 4000 is much worse.
> > >
> > > Posted from Android
> >
> > So what is the reason a certain someone leans
> out
> > while at the throttle of a shorter #844?
> >
>
> I have never sat in the engineers seat in a 800 so
> I can't offer personal opinion.
> That being said,
> I wouldn't know why other than to monitor the gear
> below.

What do you mean by "monitor the gear"? At track speeds, i.e. pretty much any speed over 30 MPH, you can't really "monitor" much anyway. Sure, sometimes it's nice to lean way out and watch the rods & drivers at fairly low speeds but, other than that, most actual "monitoring" is done by one's seat of the pants feel. For example, leaning out of the cab on 844 at speeds from 60 to 90 MPH, becomes pretty painful anyway!

I've never operated any kind of locomotive, so I don't know what I'm talking about.  But, it seems to me that, conditions permitting, both operating and weather, and when possible, I would be leaning way out of the cab, enjoying the world and the situation.

But, I ride motorcycles, and enjoy plowing snow during a storm on an atv ... so, maybe I'm different.

Jim Lee
Lake Hopatcong, NJ

HotWater Wrote:
----------------------------------------
> What do you mean by "monitor the gear"? At track
> speeds, i.e. pretty much any speed over 30 MPH,
> you can't really "monitor" much anyway. Sure,
> sometimes it's nice to lean way out and watch the
> rods & drivers at fairly low speeds but, other
> than that, most actual "monitoring" is done by
> one's seat of the pants feel. For example, leaning
> out of the cab on 844 at speeds from 60 to 90 MPH,
> becomes pretty painful anyway!

Sorry Jack, I don't know proper railroad terminology but I would say your example and perhaps look for smoke or fire would be another reason?

When I was operating 844 or 3985, I would occasionally lean out just enough to check the running gear for any signs of over heating. A couple of times that proved to be a good move. 

Bob Krieger
Cheyenne, WY

bankshotone Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HotWater Wrote:
> ----------------------------------------
> > What do you mean by "monitor the gear"? At
> track
> > speeds, i.e. pretty much any speed over 30 MPH,
> > you can't really "monitor" much anyway. Sure,
> > sometimes it's nice to lean way out and watch
> the
> > rods & drivers at fairly low speeds but, other
> > than that, most actual "monitoring" is done by
> > one's seat of the pants feel. For example,
> leaning
> > out of the cab on 844 at speeds from 60 to 90
> MPH,
> > becomes pretty painful anyway!
>
> Sorry Jack, I don't know proper railroad
> terminology but I would say your example and
> perhaps look for smoke or fire would be another
> reason?

Nope. When something "overheats" you can smell it in the cab. As I've continued to state, there is absolutely NO BENEFIT to continuously leaning WAY OUT of the cab. Note, I said "continuously".

Bucyrus-Erie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I've never operated any kind of locomotive, so I
> don't know what I'm talking about.  But, it seems
> to me that, conditions permitting, both operating
> and weather, and when possible, I would be leaning
> way out of the cab, enjoying the world and the
> situation.

Ah yes. But,,,,,,,,,,,wouldn't that tend spread the foam/drool all over the side of your face?

> But, I ride motorcycles, and enjoy plowing snow
> during a storm on an atv ... so, maybe I'm
> different.
>
> Jim Lee
> Lake Hopatcong, NJ

No reason to hang out of the cab. I got yelled out for doing that once. 

Mike ONeill
Parker, CO

I never saw any real need to stick my head way out the cab window unless I was trying to get a better look at a signal in the distance or something like that.  I haven't found any photos floating around of me hanging out of 1522's cab.  Once in a while I would look up to see what the smoke looked like, but most of the time a look at the firebox peephole at the color of the fire would make that unnecessary. 
Working the engine under bridges, etc, I definitely kept my head in.  On a 2001 excursion, I was working the engine fairly hard and went under a concrete viaduct in St Louis and blasted a bunch of old concrete chunks loose.  Had them all over the running board.  I have a hard head, but not that hard.

Pulling a passenger train tender first at 50 mph is good reason to lean out the window.  On the plus side, no cinders.  Down side you can't smell the coal smoke. 

I took over a train in the middle of the night, pitch black, tender first.  The tender headlight was crap.  It was unfamiliar line.  I'm straining out the window to see.  The pilot looks at me. "son, you don't have to stear this thing."

If i was the engineer for the UP, you bet I would lean out the window regardless of what the old farts say.... of course maintaining situational awareness with an emphasis on safety above all.  

Tominde Wrote:
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> Pulling a passenger train tender first at 50 mph
> is good reason to lean out the window.  On the
> plus side, no cinders.  Down side you can't smell
> the coal smoke. 
>
> I took over a train in the middle of the night,
> pitch black, tender first.  The tender headlight
> was crap.  It was unfamiliar line.  I'm
> straining out the window to see.  The pilot looks
> at me. "son, you don't have to stear this thing."

When I was running NP 328 exactly half our mileage was backing movements. I found it most comfortable to run backwards with reasonable visibility while sitting on the windowsill.

-John

Why to make sure you get in the photos?

JohnM Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If i was the engineer for the UP, you bet I would
> lean out the window regardless of what the old
> farts say.... of course maintaining situational
> awareness with an emphasis on safety above all.  

Posted from Android

My theory is that as far as the average onlooker is concerned,Ed is a classically sharp, good looking, charismatic silver fox. And he knows it. It's one area he beats his predecessor hands down. To the average Joe or Jane that's uneducated on railroading and will come out and watch the old timely train pass by once, he looks pretty darn good up in that window. His boss doesn't seem to mind him doing it, and he probably really likes doing it, so why NOT do it? It's like all the guys my age hating Leonardo DiCaprio in the 90s because he looked so good doing his job.

Posted from Android



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/10/19 16:15 by A-1.

With all due respect hanging half way out the cab window bareheaded looks COMPLETELY unprofessional and if it were my show it would end yesterday. Apparently Omaha doesn't see it that way or it wouldn't continue.

   The general public thinks cabooses should be red, steam locomotives should be black and locomotive engineers should wear bibs, a gold watch chain w/pocket watch attached inside bibs, a proper railroad engineers hat and red bandanna properly tucked in front to keep cinders from entering said bibs.

    All of my productions have recognized these truths and honored them.

    IMHO-Ross Rowland

co614 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> With all due respect hanging half way out the cab
> window bareheaded looks COMPLETELY unprofessional
> and if it were my show it would end yesterday.
> Apparently Omaha doesn't see it that way or it
> wouldn't continue.
>
>    The general public thinks cabooses should be
> red, steam locomotives should be black and
> locomotive engineers should wear bibs, a gold
> watch chain w/pocket watch attached inside bibs, a
> proper railroad engineers hat and red bandanna
> properly tucked in front to keep cinders from
> entering said bibs.
>
>     All of my productions have recognized these
> truths and honored them.
>
>     IMHO-Ross Rowland

Well, except those railroads burning oil fuel in their steam locomotives did NOT "dress up" like that!

The general public doesn't know what fuel it burns...it knows its a steam engine and steam engineers should look the part not like they work at Jiffy Lube.

   IMHO-Ross Rowland