Steam & Excursion > Thoughts on which main 4014 will take up and down Cajon?

4014 is scheduled to descend Cajon Pass on Wednesday, October 9th as it arrives in the Greater Los Angeles Area.
It will then be heading back up Cajon on Saturday the 12th and back down on the 13th.

With the trackage rights, I would guess that all 4 main lines up Cajon are possible, as the train no matter which track it starts on will have to cross over to BNSF to get to Barstow regardless. The only track that seems likely to not be used is BNSF Main #3 which is the one with the 3% grade compared to the other 3 at 2.2%.

I know that on November 19th, 2011, 844 came up Cajon on BNSF #1 (pictured). What do you guys think?

---

I'll bite.  When 4014 left SoCal for Cheyenne in April 2014, it went from West Colton up the Palmdale Cutoff and crossed over to the BNSF at Silverwood.  I would expect the routing into and out of SoCal would follow this same route, inasmuch as this routing has already been proven to work and it minimizes the time such a special move would spend on a foreign road.
GK



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/17/19 21:44 by TheNavigator.

TheNavigator Wrote:
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> I'll bite.  When 4014 left SoCal for Cheyenne in
> April 2014, it went from West Colton up the
> Palmdale Cutoff and crossed over to the BNSF at
> Silverwood.  I would expect the routing into and
> out of SoCal would follow this same route,
> inasmuch as this routing has already been proven
> to work, and it minimizes the time 4014 spends on
> the BNSF and reduces the potential for traffic
> disruption on that railroad.
> GK

Sounds logical.

When UP 844 was heading east toward Barstow in 2011, it crossed over to the BNSF at Keenbrook. I don't remember the details, but UP had some trains near Silverwood, and the dispatcher decided to send the 844 "early" to the BNSF. I was able to react to that (via radio chatter), and took the appropriate access to Sullivans Curve and got a clean shot of the train.

I guess the lesson is that the dispatcher(s) has the final say.

If it goes via the Cutoff there will be a bunch disappointed chasers. Much harder to follow the cutoff then it is to follow the BNSF Cajon Pass line.

Per the other threads on this keep in mind that UP hasn't invested many millions in restoring this Icon to please us steam nuts.

  She is show pony and her mission is to boost UP's public image wherever she goes. It's clear from the videos posted that she's working just enough steam to keep things lubed and her escort engines ( 844 or diesel(s) ) do the real work. This minimizes the wear & tear on the star and eliminates ( almost to zero) a road failure.

   For 99.999999% of the folks she passes on the road that works just fine.

   Let's all wish her many miles of successful touring.

   Ross Rowland

co614 Wrote:
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> Per the other threads on this keep in mind that UP
> hasn't invested many millions in restoring this
> Icon to please us steam nuts.
>
>   She is show pony and her mission is to boost
> UP's public image wherever she goes. It's clear
> from the videos posted that she's working just
> enough steam to keep things lubed and her escort
> engines ( 844 or diesel(s) ) do the real work.
> This minimizes the wear & tear on the star and
> eliminates ( almost to zero) a road failure.
>
>    For 99.999999% of the folks she passes on the
> road that works just fine.
>
>    Let's all wish her many miles of successful
> touring.
>
>    Ross Rowland

Well that's why I think per my question the one main that can almost certainly be ruled out, at least on the way up, is BNSF #3 with its 3% grade.
If it were up to me of course she would be putting on a real show going up that pass. Why not put on a display of power? But it's not my circus, not my pony.

I agree with Ross on his statement, why put all of that work into the engine and the try to use her like they used to? It makes more sense to help it along so we can enjoy her on videos running not having a part failure put it out of service and cost the RR track time because its sittting on the main someplace broke.

BAB Wrote:
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> I agree with Ross on his statement, why put all of
> that work into the engine and the try to use her
> like they used to? It makes more sense to help it
> along so we can enjoy her on videos running not
> having a part failure put it out of service and
> cost the RR track time because its sittting on the
> main someplace broke.

Really?  Not "babying" 3985 nor 844, didn't seem to hurt anything, plus put on a far more impressive "show" for the public, when either locomotive was worked properly.

Sorry Hot Water but IMHO you're dead wrong. 99.99999 % of the general public doesn't know the difference when 4014 passes them if it's working just enough throttle to keep things lubricated or wide open and really doing the pulling. Yes if they ever were to witness it in full power mode they'd then know if it susequently went by in reduced throttle the difference, but that's not going to occur. Long as the headlight & whistle works all is good.

    With the tons of money UP has invested in this show pony you can bet the farm that they've issued orders to do all possible to minimize wear & tear on her and maximize her longevity. After all there's only one live BB.

   Ross Rowland

co614 Wrote:
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> Sorry Hot Water but IMHO you're dead wrong.
> 99.99999 % of the general public doesn't know the
> difference when 4014 passes them if it's working
> just enough throttle to keep things lubricated or
> wide open and really doing the pulling. Yes if
> they ever were to witness it in full power mode
> they'd then know if it susequently went by in
> reduced throttle the difference, but that's not
> going to occur. Long as the headlight & whistle
> works all is good.

Well, maybe so but, working substantial throttle made 3985 and 844 a LOT easier to fire, with a LOT less banging of the running gear.

>     With the tons of money UP has invested in
> this show pony you can bet the farm that they've
> issued orders to do all possible to minimize wear
> & tear on her and maximize her longevity. After
> all there's only one live BB.

But then, if proper blowdown and boiler wash procedures aren't followed, what about the "wear & tear" then?


>    Ross Rowland

One would hope that the boiler wash and blow down lessons have been well learned by now?? Hope springs eternal.

   Ross Rowland

Look at my photo of 844 coming up in 2011. There’s steam coming out of the stack. It was a pretty decent plume. I’m hoping for at least that. Or is even that going to be too much to expect or hope for?

Posted from iPhone

kurt765 Wrote:
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> Look at my photo of 844 coming up in 2011.
> There’s steam coming out of the stack. It was a
> pretty decent plume.

Well, not really. What you are seeing is the Wilson Sludge Remover forcing steam vapor upwards. There does not appear to be ANY strong exhaust from the stack. Also note the steam vapor exiting from ground level on both the Engineer's side, and the Fireman's side (from the cold water turbine for the Worthington Feedwater System).

I’m hoping for at least
> that. Or is even that going to be too much to
> expect or hope for?

Yes.
 

co614 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes if they ever were to witness it in full power mode
> they'd then know if it susequently went by in
> reduced throttle the difference, but that's not
> going to occur. Long as the headlight & whistle
> works all is good.

I think I can read between the lines. 

I was fortunate enough to watch the 4449, 844, 3985, 3751, 611, and others in recent years even in this age of modern mediocrity. Folks like yourself who promoted steam preservation made it possible for a late-participating foamer like me to enjoy steam excellence, so thank you.

I disagree with Ross., I for one can't make it out to see 4014 and from this discussion I'm trying to see 765 and 261 like I did with 611 2 years ago, they got crews that know how to run a steam engine and keep them maintained, not this crap where you got a diesel on even a 3 car train just because they want it to look pristine all the time and put on a so called show just to make people happy, I didn't get hooked with the UP Steam Program and my Girl 4449 for nothing, I for one like to see a real steam engine working hard instead of being pushed all over the place!