Steam & Excursion > The Tremendous Power Of Steam Was Tragically Demonstrated Here!

The energy that steam provided in it's use in steam powered locomotives was both a blessing and a curse at the same time.  If the crews running these engines did not treat the steam that they were producing with sufficient respect, the results would disastrous as we see here.

When built by ALCO in October, 1936, Northern Pacific #5105 was part of an order of the first 12 Z-6 Class 4-6-6-4's built for the road.  Her boiler was designed to operate at 250#s boiler pressure while in service.  It was this boiler pressure that got the crew in trouble on July 5, 1938 while the engine was pulling a freight along the Clarks Fork River near Willis, Montana.

The engineer assigned to #5105 on this day had a habit of running with low water in the boiler.  He must have assumed that running with low water gave him more room in the boiler to make steam so that he could use more steam as he pulled the grades.  On this day his habit came to bite him and the rest of his crew. 

#5105 suffered a massive boiler explosion that tore the boiler clear off the frame and deposited it in the Clarks Fork River as we see here.  The engineer and his fireman and head brakeman all lost their lives in the wreck as did 2 hobos that were riding the freight cars that derailed. 

With #5105 being less than 2 years old at the time of the explosion, NP set out to retrieve her and put her through a complete rebuild that took 7-months and $55,000 to accomplish.

When steam remains harnessed it can work wonders.  If you don't respect it, it will turn on you with disastrous results.

Martin



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/05/20 03:45 by LoggerHogger.

---

"It was this boiler
> pressure that got the crew in trouble..."

To eliminate confusion: the calamity resulted from an overheated crown sheet when the low water level let a portion go dry.
it is the crew's responsibility to ensure that there plenty of water in the boiler.  Everyone in the cab must ensure that there
is always water in "the glass".

When overheated, steel looses its strength at a very fast rate.
Typically, staybolts are spaced on 4-inch centers. Thus, one bolt supports an area of 16 square inches.
16 sq. Inches Xs 250 pounds per square inches, is is 4000 pounds strain on a few threads, cut at 12 threads per inch of thickness.
One thread is .125 inches along the shaft. Firebox steel is 3/8" thick....that's only .375-inches of threads in the sheet--- 3- threads holding.

4,000 lbs held by .375" doesn't leave much room for error.

A piece of steel at 1,000 deg. F. is weaker by 8-times it's strength --- compared to steel kept submerged.
So, if you design a boiler with a safety-factor of 4, ( at nominal boiler-water temps);  yet,
heat the steel up with a 'dry' crown sheet, how long--- with softened-steel sheets & with
3 threads 'holding'---before those threads strip off, and the sheet drops?

Now, take an area of several square feet (a square foot is 144 sq. Inches, gives 36,000 pounds per square foot.),
and you get a horrendous explosion, immediately.

'Dry' steel heats up very quickly in a blacksmith's forge, so with fire temps in a firebox easily getting to
3,000, deg F.... it doesn't  take long for the boiler sheets to go dry, sheets to strip off of the bolts, and then the explosion.

Always keep plenty of water covering the crown....it's the only thing that prevents boiler explosions,
especially in fire-tube boilers.

Always be safe.
Safety is no accident.

​W,

 



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/05/20 07:51 by wcamp1472.

Hard to believe they would spend the money to rebuild.
It must be cheaper than purchasing new.

Safe to assume the cost of a new engine like it back then was in the 120,000 to 135,000 range.  So it did pay to repair it.

WOW guys! Thanks for posting the photo & the explanation of what & how this happens.

Tim
Hanesworth

Remember that if the repair was given an AFE of $55,000, that a large portion of that was already overhead (sunk costs) in the shops that the RR was going to pay anyway. Whether or not they did this locomotive, they were paying boilermakers, machinists, helpers, roustabouts etc.  It was simply a matter of assigning those already sunk costs to this repair which is quite different from going out and spending 100% of the cost of a new engine.   Then there is a lot of accounting in addition.  Repairs are (and were) tax deductible in the year in which they were performed.  A new locomotive had to be depreciated over a portion of its life, and certainly this engine at 2 years old had not reached the end of its cycle.  Thus the bottom line hit to repair it was much less than to write it totally off.
All of that had to be taken into account (literally) by both the mechanical and accounting departments in making the decision as to how to go forward on any major rebuild or repair.

Say you're the Fireman and you have this Engineer who likes to run with low water levels in the boiler.
You know it's dangerous, but, what can you do about it? 

PHall Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Say you're the Fireman and you have this Engineer
> who likes to run with low water levels in the
> boiler.
> You know it's dangerous, but, what can you do
> about it? 

Not very much, as the vast majority of railroads specified their steam locomotives to have the water control equipment controls mounted on the Engineer's side, thus the Engineer controlled the input of boiler water. On their more modern, larger steam locomotives, both the UP and the SP had the boiler water feedwater systems mounted on the Fireman's side, do to all their sever mountain grades. On SP modern steam locomotives, the Fireman even had the headlight & Mars Light controls.

My late father, a native of Montana, told me about this and how the NP was so embarassed by having one of their new engines blow up that they tried to cover the boiler and firebox area with tarps.
He said that "everyone" knew the facts, but the corporation could not admit them.
Elsewhere I had read that the NP tried to pursue a claim against Alco for defects.
The NP must have hoarded their pennies during the depression years to finally come up with the funds for these new engines and it hurt to lose one.

Re: PHall, above,

You can do a lot, if you can't convince the engineer to get the water up, where you want it ---- reduce the firebox intensity to protect the crown. 

Get the fire way cooled down, yet (coal) still have the coals hot enough to restore the firebed ...once you've got the water up.

(With 'active boiling'  in the boiler the submerged steam bubbles serve to raise the apparent water level in the boiler...
as the throttle is closed, the apparent (& the actual) water level drops by over an inch ( in th sight glass), possibly exposing more of the crown to the "dry condition".  WHAM!)

Yes, there'll be argument in the cab, but you won't be killed in the explosion....
Don't be complicit in stupidity, if you're firing, YOU take control of the boiler....if there's no visible water....don't continue the hot fire.

The life you save may be your own.
In 1996, Gettysburg rail-fan, excursion, loco ex-CP 1278 dropped its crown sheet --- combination of willful negligence and stupidity,
on the 4 parties  in the cab....

It can happen tomorrow, if we are ALL,  not careful.
Against stupidity, The Physics wins, every time.

As an observer, make sure you know how to properly & safely test and check the functioning of the boiler sight glasses.
If you have any questions, ----  politely, ask the crew to demonstrate that the water glasses are completely functional..

Look for quick response to water level changes and to quick recovery-rates, back to true level.  
If the water doesn't recover it's level instantly, or is demonstrably slow to recover ---- get that boiler
taken out-of-service ,IMMEDIATELY!

Get the boiler washed and all the sight glass supply-pipes reamed of any accumulated 'scale' or obstructions..
This is deadly serious --- especially in today's world where we're all amateurs --- all the 'professionals' died decades ago,
of old age..

Stay safe, be alert, ask the 'dumb questions' of stuff you don't understand, yet, that you sense are NOT safe practices.
ANY  "steam operation". that ridicules you or derides your curiosity,  get the H--- away from there, before they kill somebody...
This is deadly serious.

If you are concerned, Contact me, & through my resources, I'll immediately take steps necessary to investigate &
correct the problem --- related to any unsafe boiler management ( USofA, only) 

Wes Camp
wcamp91543@aol.com

 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/05/20 09:47 by wcamp1472.

The key thing to remember is that water in a pressure vessel like a boiler can get above the regular boiling point and not boil, due to their literally being no place for the resulting steam to go.  Thus the water gets hotter than 212 degrees and remains there, turning to steam as space and pressures in the boiler allow.  Then when the crown sheet fails, the is suddenly no pressure in the boiler at all.  All that "superheated" water above 212 degrees instantly turns to steam.  A given volume of water needs 1032 times the space as steam to maintain the same force on the boiler, so the pressure in the boiler increases, instantly, by over a 1000 times.  No wonder a boiler explosion is so destructive.

Many times, the steam exits thru the tear in the crown sheet and is literally a massive jet of steam, forcing that end of the boiler straight up like a rocket while the escaping steam would kill or severely burn any crew in the cab.  It was probably the scariest thing a crew could imagine happening, right up there with a head-on collision.

Was there time to be scared or were crew members killed instantly?

Not enough time to say OH S***

dougd Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Was there time to be scared or were crew members
> killed instantly?

Plenty of time to be scared...

When the water goes out of sight below the bottom of the glass ...you know its danger time.
You also know when the water is getting low, even before it disappears.

However, if your engineer insists on running with low water, you know that, too.

Its the old situation; "Famliarity breeds comtempt"  Meaning, the more familiar you are with a working in dangerous work environment, living with the chances
for a deadly event,  numbs your inclinations to be cautious.  The more often you get-away with skating on thin ice, the more emboldened you become ... 'til you fall through!

So, yes, with low water, everyone in the cab is SCARED.... but, male egos maintain an aura of "I'm Tough"..... Then, things get deadly...
But, you always know, OR should know,  when you're low on water.  You dont have to drop the entire coal fire, but drop a big portion of the fire through grates ---- while you stop and get a half a glass of water back..
(If an oil burner, reduce the flame to barely burning).  BUT ALWAYS TAKE CONTROL OF THE SITUATION.

Exception to the 'always'::  ex-CP 1278, 4-6-2, 1995(?),  Gettysburg RR.   Waterglass had no operable lightbulb, the glass & its windows were smoked up with soot, engineer was contemptous of the engine and his crew ---
he disregarded all sensible safe loco operation practices. All the crew was injured, the enginner was badly burned when the crown sheet dropped, during a controlled release of the pressure --an innovative crown stay design
built into the  G5 locos by the design folks at MLW, 1948.  That design of controlling the low water & related release of boiler pressure, saved the 1278 from a more horrendous boiler explosion at Gardners, Pa.
( it could have flattened that little hamlet.)

There's a formal NTSB report on that boiler explosion, available on-line.
Let me know if you want the specific report, I'll get you that report's refernce number..
Its absolutely scary to read*...

W.

(* At the NTSB hearing,  when asked, under oath, to describe how to properly test a boiler's water glass, none of the involved employees could demonstrate, or had knowledge of how to do a proper water glass check,
 or how to know when a glass is partially obstructed... All of the witnesses failed those questions, including the engineer...The glass supply pipes had not been reamed or cleaned for years of boiler time....
Ask Conrad, or Moedinger... )



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/05/20 20:10 by wcamp1472.

I'm told by railroader friends from the age of steam that some engineers ran on low water to avoid making a stop on a hot train, thinking they could make it to the next water stop. They said if you were good engineer you knew how to conserve water and how much of a chance you could take. But some pushed it.

A freind told me of a engineer on the Wabash who had a habit of running low on water in order to avoid making a stop and expiditing his hot trains. If he passed another train at a meet where most engineers would have taken on water, he'd run by at full speed and really rub it in by giving the other engineer a glare. He never had a boiler explosion, but they called him "Wild Bill", and he was a fast runner and a bit wreckless. Bill did miss a red signal one time, running a football special and rear-ended a freight. Wild Bill got a year off but was rehired! Apparently. he also hit some MOW equipment one time too, but my friend Clarence passed away before he could tell me about that one. Bill also had a habit of running above the speed limit.

Let's say Bill had a reputation for being very stubborn and crazy, but could really put a loco to the test and get the trains in on time. A retired engineer (still living) who fired for Wild Bill, near the end of steam, told me about firing a tired, old engine for Bill that had bad grates. George told Bill to take it easy as he would dump the fire. But Wild Bill horsed it. It was an "I told you so moment" for the engineer. Of course, he blamed it all on the George. Interestingly, Bill had a brother named Chuck that was also a "Runner" or a "Hot Rodder" as the Wabash crews would say, but he didn't take chances like his brother. Both Bill and Chuck were WWI Vets and had long careers on the Wabash Fourth District btw Montpelier, Ohio and Chicago.

One of my favorite lines from my good old, retired Conductor Friend Clarence was, "The dispatcher would tell the yardmasters up there at East Chicago to get their switch engines off the track or someplace in the clear, because either Bill or Chuck Ferguson was coming through!" Though Clarence was a conductor he liked steam so much (his dad was an engineer), especially the big 2800, 4-8-2s, that he would ride the "jump seat" behind the fireman on a hot freight. Bill's nephew is still living and he could collaborate whatever Clarence said about Bill with a smile.

Victor A. Baird
http://www.erstwhilepublications.com



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 01/05/20 21:46 by wabash2800.

I believe the NTSB report also shows the investigation found the cab crew refusal to use any of the tri-cocks to test the water level because their use would cause wear of the valve and require service work.  Two men blown out of cab, engineer was son of owner and he tied to stay in cab to get train stopped and received severe skin burns, where skin fell off.

About rebuild rather than scrap way back then wages were not a factor back then the cost of equipment was the deciding thing. Now its the other way around.

Re: PlyWoody...

Ignorance abounded...
The Tri-Cocks on that loco are equipped with replaceable fiber disks... the cocks’ stems are
left-hand threaded.

The disks are replaceable under boiler pressure... Turning the handle clockwise, to its ‘stop’,
plugs the opening to the boiler...

The bonnet is then safely removed from the stem ( screwed tight into the body), and the old disk is removed & replaced. Less than 30 seconds..

When in everyday operation, the conventional right-handed operation of the handle, loosens the disk and allows steam/water to flow out the small vent pipe.

When closed in the conventional
Right-hand twists, the disk is trapped & seals..

The disks today are made from a high quality/high temp plastic material made for that purpose &
Readily available.

If two water glasses are used, current regs allow tri-cocks to be
Removed & holes plugged...

I still prefer keeping tri-cocks on locos, so equipped.

There are many other defects that
owners perpetrated on poor 1278...
They ruined a wonderful, young loco....

May they spend eternity in the trapped in the Devil’s firebox....

W.

Posted from iPhone



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/20 09:13 by wcamp1472.

Mr. Wcamp could you list where I could look up more info on the infamous Gettysburg explosion. Thank you.

Posted from iPhone

Drknow Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mr. Wcamp could you list where I could look up
> more info on the infamous Gettysburg explosion.
> Thank you.

I would think that the FRA site would have the complete report of their findings.