Steam & Excursion > My views on the Union Pacific Steam Program 2020

I have been a fan of the Union Pacific Steam Program for many years now.  But as of the past few years, I really haven't liked where the program is headed.  Since Edgar Dickens, Jr took over helm of the program, things are IMHO not headed in a good direction.  When a decision to restore the 4014 was made, a lot of homework wasn't done.  They didn't consider the to this day, there is still a good majority of the UP system where Big Boy really can't run.  Steve Lee made some good points years ago about how restoring a 4000 made no sense.  There were a huge lack of turning facilities, which is probably still a factor today.  Converting one to an oil burner would have no advantage & the operating cost would be horrible.  It's weight would keep it off many bridges, which possibly is still a factor today.  The overall cost of restoring 4014 to operation ate into what essentially could be 3-5 years of the entire operating budget.

When 4014 was announced, the steam crew was already in the process of the rebuild of the 3985. In hindsight, restoring a 4000 really shouldn't have been done.  I personally have nothing against seeing the 4014 run again, but both the UP upper management & the steam team should have used their heads.

The Official Union Pacific Steam Club Facebook group is run beyond unprofessionally.  Every time anyone posts something related to the 3985, the UP or the other admins are quick to shut off any form of commenting.  I have no clue as to what that happens.

Another thing that makes me feel that the UP Steam Program is headed in the wrong direction is the hostility created by Dickens in the workplace.  Many of the longtime crew have since transferred elsewhere on the UP or have retired early, mainly to the hostile environment Dickens created.  Supposedly, Dickens often discriminated many of the senior employees because of their age.  Many of the staff Dickens hired were less than 30 years of age, most of which had no prior experience in the trades they do in the shop. Dickens says he was the one that hired Austin Barker in 2010.  In 2010, Steve Lee was still in charge & making the decisions.  Austin Barker was hired by Steve Lee. Henry Krenning tried legal action against UP, with no prevail.  Carol Chavez tried the same, with no success.  Krenning made most up most of what he said in his lawsuit, supposedly.  The issue Chavez had should be re-opened IMO.

It also appears that quite possibly the steam shop was recently hit with 15 OSHA violations.  Dickens has been in charge for almost 10 years & is just now getting these violations corrected?  He should have began correcting these the moment he took charge.  In the shop, a suspended ceiling was in place.  The area above the ceiling, there were pigeons taking up residency & who knows what else was.  It took Dickens 4 years to remove it.  There are also (according to Dickens) many defects with the tracks around the facility.

The roundhouse is in need of serious repair.  Where is Dickens going to put the stuff sitting in the roundhouse if it gets the needed repairs?    The roundhouse holds equipment that too is in need of repair.  Most of that equipment has been sitting inside for god knows how many years untouched.

Now with 4014 running again, my feeling is that it is going to be short-lived.  Then again, my opinions differ.

Dickens has promised time & time again that the 3985 was going to run again.  Now he is claiming that the 3985 has been retired.  It was mentioned of Facebook by Dickens to a group that has no connection with UP one so ever.  To date, no official statement has been made regarding the fate of 3985.  With this in mind, the retirement of 3985 should be considered unofficial.

I've posted pictures of the ceiling, wouldn't want to be working there in Winter. 

Out

I'm pretty sure you can search OSHA violations and complaints online.  I'm not seeing anything with UP in Wyoming in the last 10+ years at least but maybe they're so recent they won't show up online yet.

I thought Scott Moore (SVP and Chief Admin Officer with the UP) made a comment sometime last year that the 3985 likely wouldn't be a part of the steam program going forward.

Most of this stuff is repeating the same stuff that is now 8 years old.

4014 covered most of the UP system, with more to come next year and brought tens of thousands of people trackside. I have never witnessed so many people, especially those who usually have no interest in trains, take an interest in a steam locomotive like this.

It seems that there will always be people who have a problem with Ed. We may never really know what has happened in Cheyenne over the last 10 years, but now there are two operational steam locomotives that regularly are out on a mainline when railroads are going through a notorious cost cutting phase.

Things could definitely be worse in Cheyenne, and there are other groups out there that are steam operators out there that people
should be much more worried about.

They say Steve Lee said a 4000 was a poor candidate for the UP steam program, but there's also some of the crew from his era that say they almost restored the 4023. Now 4014 is running, and has covered quite a bit of territory. Sure, it can't go everywhere, but it's already covered a lot of the usual steam excursion routes. Maybe they'll just keep doing loop tours with it instead of the usual out-and-back trips that were common in the previous era, so turning the engine won't be needed as much. How many times did they actually neet to turn the engine en route in 2019? And as for the Facebook group, it's not for traditional railfans. It's for generating buzz and excitement with the general public. It's the platform for the official program, which is the PR depratment o a major corporation. So of course they're going to shut down anything negative or divisive being brought up. It seems that the UP Steam Program, with the help of its Facebook page spreading awareness about it, hs made the program more visible, engaging and exciting to the general public(their target audience) than ever before. So I'd say they're running it very professionally. That excitement over old trains will probably have a trickle down effect that brings more awareness and support to smaller steam groups.

Why are we digging up these dead horses and beating them again?

davew833 Wrote:
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> Why are we digging up these dead horses and
> beating them again?
I was wondering the same thing.  Why can't you all just be super happy that the Union Pacific is running any steam period?  Why be so ungrateful?  Come here in the east where we have NO STEAM running on either CSX or Norfolk Southern.  We are happy that the Norfolk Southern allowed steam to at least move over their railroad like the N&W 611 going to the Strasburg Railroad in Pennsylvania.  But let's be honest, all of you steam enthusiasts should be so grateful for the Union Pacific steam program.  Enough said.
John in White Marsh, Maryland

The UP steam haters are senile and delusional. These rants acoomplish nothing other than making the OP look like a broken record spewing nonsensical garbage. 

RN

My popcorn maker is broken. Sorry. No need to read any further. Same old same old. While I'm not a fan of big steam engines towing around a diesel, it looks like they had a pretty sucessful year to me. 

This is all crazy, foolish talk.  If it was not for the U.P. and Ed Dickens, all of us would be going to our graves, never having seen a Big Boy go up Sherman Hill.  For that, I will always be grateful.  Yes, I wish it was burning coal, smoke more, and didn't have that damn diesel "pushing it".  But, what are you going to do.  It is better than no Big Boy at all.  Now, I wish they would have a trip or two, Cheyenne to Laramie, with 6 or 7 photo runs, each done twice.  The U.P. used to do this with 844 and 3985.

UPChallenger3985 Wrote:
----------------------------------------
> Dickens has promised time & time again that the
> 3985 was going to run again.  Now he is claiming
> that the 3985 has been retired.  It was mentioned
> of Facebook by Dickens to a group that has no
> connection with UP one so ever.  To date, no
> official statement has been made regarding the
> fate of 3985.  With this in mind, the retirement
> of 3985 should be considered unofficial.

You sound like some of these Facebook fans that have thier heads buried in the sand. Do you really think it is necessary or a requisite for the U. P. To release a special statement regarding the 3985 status?? Give me a break. You sound like that Walters guy that claims it's all "hearsay" I don't really think Ed Dickens would publicly state that the 3985 is retired if that wasn't the case.

Posted from Android

UPChallenger3985 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have been a fan of the Union Pacific Steam
> Program for many years now.  But as of the past
> few years, I really haven't liked where the
> program is headed.  Since Edgar Dickens, Jr took
> over helm of the program, things are IMHO not
> headed in a good direction.  When a decision to
> restore the 4014 was made, a lot of homework
> wasn't done.  They didn't consider the to this
> day, there is still a good majority of the UP
> system where Big Boy really can't run.  Steve Lee
> made some good points years ago about how
> restoring a 4000 made no sense.  There were a
> huge lack of turning facilities, which is probably
> still a factor today.  Converting one to an oil
> burner would have no advantage & the operating
> cost would be horrible.  It's weight would keep
> it off many bridges, which possibly is still a
> factor today.  The overall cost of restoring 4014
> to operation ate into what essentially could be
> 3-5 years of the entire operating budget.
>
> When 4014 was announced, the steam crew was
> already in the process of the rebuild of the 3985.
> In hindsight, restoring a 4000 really shouldn't
> have been done.  I personally have nothing
> against seeing the 4014 run again, but both the UP
> upper management & the steam team should have used
> their heads.
>
> The Official Union Pacific Steam Club Facebook
> group is run beyond unprofessionally.  Every time
> anyone posts something related to the 3985, the UP
> or the other admins are quick to shut off any form
> of commenting.  I have no clue as to what that
> happens.
>
> Another thing that makes me feel that the UP Steam
> Program is headed in the wrong direction is the
> hostility created by Dickens in the workplace.
>  Many of the longtime crew have since transferred
> elsewhere on the UP or have retired early, mainly
> to the hostile environment Dickens created.
>  Supposedly, Dickens often discriminated many of
> the senior employees because of their age.  Many
> of the staff Dickens hired were less than 30 years
> of age, most of which had no prior experience in
> the trades they do in the shop. Dickens says he
> was the one that hired Austin Barker in 2010.  In
> 2010, Steve Lee was still in charge & making the
> decisions.

Nope. Steve Lee was promoted to Superintendent of Heritage Fleet Operations, and physically moved out of the Cheyenne shop, to the UP offices in town, in early 2010 (March or April). The current manager was then "brought back" to Cheyenne and promoted to Manager of the Cheyenne Steam Shop. Mr. Barker was hired by the current manager, sometime in late 2010 (after October 2010).

 Austin Barker was hired by Steve Lee.

No, he was NOT.

> Henry Krenning tried legal action against UP, with
> no prevail.  Carol Chavez tried the same, with no
> success.  Krenning made most up most of what he
> said in his lawsuit, supposedly.  The issue
> Chavez had should be re-opened IMO.

The UP eventually "settled out of court" over the Carol Chevez matter, after it was brought to light that the Judge that dismissed her case was married to one of the top attorneys representing the UP against Chavez.
 

davew833 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why are we digging up these dead horses and
> beating them again?

Its nothing more than the TO trolls that come out of the woodwork and say nothing important, think they know it all, understand how and why railroads dont operate as they should. List goes on they beat up Ed for several years and said that 4014 would never run, he couldnt fix anything and it was going to be pushed by a diesel engine. Even when proved wrong they nit picked it to death. And due to all of the BS they posted it ran UP isnt into making money off of steam engines. WE the FANS are the ones who are enjoying them spending tons of money keeping them going. Those operating and working in the steam program are paid empoyees and dont work for free, I dont see anyone donating money to them from those who think they know all.

Just my opinion didnt bother to read much of the first post as its all just the same rehash as before its been too quiet. I just want to know when and where they might operate it in the pacific north west this year.

Amazing that anyone who doesn't agree with you is a troll.

Out 

callum_out Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Amazing that anyone who doesn't agree with you is
> a troll.
>
> Out 

Fairly typical of "BAB".

It's UP's sandbox.  They get to decide which toys come in or go out.   Just as they get to decide how oversee the sandbox and who plays in it.

 The Big Boy has dazzled hundreds of thousands of people and created new interest in our beloved hobby more than any other steam locomotive could!  Thank you, Union Pacific and CEO Lance Fritz.  End of discussion in my book. Beating a dead horse.

Dazzled thousands of non-involved people, screwed over a simialr number of shippers, way to go Lance.

Out 

The Union Pacific should be commended for undertaking such an historic event as restoring a Big Boy locomotive and running it all over their system. What an amazing thing to see in 2020. I just hope I will get a chance to see it in person at some point.
To undertake this huge task, some compromises were necessary. As long as 3985 wasn't permanently rendered inoperable, who cares if it is sitting idle for now? The Big Boy is running! Incredible.
In time, things will change and we will see if the UP wishes to continue its steam program. Kudos to them for keeping it alive for 70 years. Thank you, UP.

Posted from Android

dal3294 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The UP steam haters are senile and delusional.
> These rants acoomplish nothing other than making
> the OP look like a broken record spewing
> nonsensical garbage. 

That's basically namecalling. Worst post in this thread so far.

Too many of you are one-sided and refuse to see the "rest of the story" and reach a nonsensical conclusion like yours.

If UP corporate didn't play politics with the Steam Program, then maybe we would have had 4023 running far sooner than 4014, and 3985 could have had a chance to do a retirement tour during the 150th Anniversary of the Union Pacific (not the Golden Spike) in 2012? Yup, I'm speculating somewhat. However, I'm definitely not spewing nonsensical garbage.

Many "UP steam haters" have expressed their opinions on the 4014, and I found many of them to be valid. Some have real steam restoration experience. Some were involved with steam restoration going back to the American Freedom Train, something that ran before some of you guys were even born?

I was lucky enough to witness the 4014 do some real work in Utah and Arizona, but many in other areas (SoCal, for example) got mediocrity of the diesels in run 8. The presence of 844 masked the 4014 mediocrity in May of 2019, if you were paying attention and not blinded with "excitement." 

I think 4014 will run better in 2020, because they are mostly done with the break-in. Regardless of criticism, the crew is trying their best, so give them credit. In the meantime, the sins of 2011 to 2018 will not go away, so deal with the controversy without the irrational namecalling.