Steam & Excursion > Cheyenne Frontier days train

Will UP be running the Big Boy + 844 on the Cheyenne frontier days train this year: I believe the tickets are by lottery only.

No.

https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?10,4714933,4714933#msg-4714933

WauhopM Wrote:
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> Will UP be running the Big Boy + 844 on the
> Cheyenne frontier days train this year: I believe
> the tickets are by lottery only.

The Denver Post Charities dropped that train last year.

Bob Krieger
Cheyenne, WY

perhaps UP will sponser it  in 1 or 2 years

dan Wrote:
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> perhaps UP will sponser it  in 1 or 2 years

Fat chance!

no slim chance, after the barnstorming faze is over

I know you can hardly wait for it to come the PNW!

dan Wrote:
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> no slim chance, after the barnstorming faze is
> over

Want to bet?

> I know you can hardly wait for it to come the PNW!

Well, I could care less about 4014 going to the PNW, as I already watched it ease by, westbound out of the Chicago area. Not all that impressive in my opinion.

I've not heard one person who saw the 4014 run in service say that the current resto is anywhere near impressive.

Out 

A 4000 wasn't even breathing hard, with a mile of cars in tow..
15-20 roller bearing coaches ain't gonna make it draft well, compared 
to a REAL load...and one or two dismal in full dynamic --- ain't gonna do it,
either.  

Remember, braking current remains ( controlled) at a fixed HP, in Watts,--- 
as speed of the  'load'  (train) increases, the TM excitation field is reduced to maintain 
limited current to the delicate braking grids... if let-out, a BB could go faster and faster,
as grids remain under controlled (ever-reducing ) current.

There have been modern (dismals) run-aways , because the engine driver attempted to control 
the building momentum of the freights with the dynamics--- when that failed, and speeds increased
even the air brakes in 'Emergency', were not capable of stopping the run-away trains.

See two very similar wrecks near Barstow, CA... ( the earlier wreck had damaged an adjacent
[burried] gasoline pipeline ---- which later exploded during the continued rerailing operations
at the derailment site...resulting in a separate NTSB. "pipeline accident" report, 
that paralleled the NTSB train Derailment's reports....

Because the crews didn't appreciate ( not properly trained?) the fact that current limiting of the braking 
effort results in less braking effort and retarding effect of all dynamic brakes, as speed increases...

​W.

(For an interesting study, read records of what happened to old-time electric powered freights,
when using 'regenerative braking', and the uphill train, had stopped for various reasons ---
the down-hill trains zoomed away & soon faced run-away speeds, above the possible control
of the train's air brakes, and lost control..dramatically derailing in the process..).
 



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/20 11:27 by wcamp1472.

And in both the famous UP and SP runaways there was a major under estimate of trailing tonnage. not to mention non-functioning dynamics. 

Out

How would those two factors materially affect train handling by the engineer?
Wouldn't he know by experience and training that he had crested the hill at too fast a speed ....?
Was that the first time that underestimating train weights had occurred, or was that very common?

There's so much about the Barstow incidents that muddies the waters in the NTSB reports.
Excessive speed ( at the start) was the cause....the rest of the 'factors' are incompetent, irrelevant, & immaterial.

​W.



 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/20 11:48 by wcamp1472.

dan Wrote:
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> perhaps UP will sponser it  in 1 or 2 years
Class 1's are forbidden to sell passenger tickets under the law that created Amtrak.They can lease the equipment to a 3rd party. I think the steam program could actually turn a profit if they could market it and sell tickets.

HotWater Wrote:
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> dan Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > no slim chance, after the barnstorming faze is
> > over
>
> Want to bet?
>
> > I know you can hardly wait for it to come the
> PNW!
>
> Well, I could care less about 4014 going to the
> PNW, as I already watched it ease by, westbound
> out of the Chicago area. Not all that impressive
> in my opinion.

When you have diesels doing most of the work, I don't blame you there Jack, my friend Curtis asked if I caught it here in Arizona and I told him even if I didn't need new rear tires for my car I wouldn't of wasted my time!

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/20 17:07 by ProAmtrak.

callum_out Wrote:
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> I've not heard one person who saw the 4014 run in
> service say that the current resto is anywhere
> near impressive.
>
> Out 

I have not heard anyone say the 4014 restoration is anywhere near impressive, either, because I have not talked with anyone who has seen the 4014 in action.  However, I've read plenty of commentary on Trainorders from those who saw the locomotive and were very impressed.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/20 20:17 by RuleG.

UP could work with the same foundation the Post did or any number of charities, but if UP doesn'tcontribute the dead head costs it won't happen.
> Class 1's are forbidden to sell passenger tickets
> under the law that created Amtrak.They can lease
> the equipment to a 3rd party. I think the steam
> program could actually turn a profit if they could
> market it and sell tickets.

The challenge is that this behemoth, the pinnacle of steam loco construction, is being
seen mostly by folks who have never seen a 4000 doing  it's thing at the head a REAL train.

All us of are babes-in-the-woods, including me, and we have NEVER SEEN what these
Bad Boys can actually do..

Sure we're all IMPRESSED as it  leads 15 or 20 coaches, but it's not like we're actually
seeing an engine at full superheat, with the firebricks glowing red hot, with the superheat
adding 500 degrees to the steam headed to the cylinders...
With a mile or more of decent freight behind his water cars,....
With a WHITE HOT fire, & with the pops on the 'feather' of steam....
ready to erupt as soon as the engineer eases off ---  by two throttle notches..*

And we probably never will...

​W.

*Leave the dismals in the barn, too.
When just departing, blow the cykinder cocks --- well;  Ease into the task, with a gentle
throttle, adding more fuel, as the bricks heat up,

Keep gradually accelerating, gradually warming the whole boiler up....
In about 20, or so minutes, upon nearing 30-per, widen on the throttle, and NOW lean
into the train, check with the fireman,  and then, GET AFTER IT., add a little sand
under the wheels..  Ensuring that you've got a clear track ahead.

Now that's really BAD BOY, Big Boy...
 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/20 19:58 by wcamp1472.

Wow and if UP didnt have to show a profit possibly someone on here could just buy UP then they could loose money operating the steam program. Evey one seems to think UP can just throw money at something that has no monatary return for them but since they like to make money things are diffrent in there world.

The other "problem" is that those of us who have seen one run in service were most likely impressionable kids and I can tell you as an 11 year
old the things were very loud, very smokey and shook the ground when they went by. It was Dad's fault, he was a steam guy having worked for
a short line, he got me interested. I'll say it again, it's still loud but the rest, notsumuch. If you never saw one it's tough to make a comparison,
be impressed and go on with life. From the UP corporate standpoint the steam program is history, heritage, and something to show corporate
image and involvement. But, the interest level has to make dollars sense and that means shippers and investers, and the street all have to be
impressed. Are they? Traffic levels are lower than when it ran, yes that's the economy but show the bean counters where the 4014 had a 
positive affect on the bottom line. As everyone is saying, enjoy it while you can and if it makes the PNW takes LOTS of pictures.

Out

BAB...

Remember that they pay taxes on their Profits, which is "taxable income".
A well-run corporation manages the tax rules & regs to their benefit, the UP is no different, taking every
legimate expense off of their "taxable Profits".
My presumption is, wIth the steam program under the "advertising/Goodwill" budget item, the monies expended 
are a legitimate business 'expense' and therefore REDUCE the taxable 'Profit" amounts ...

With their total 'advertising' budget (TV, Print, internet, Commuity outreach, university support, charities, donations,etc), they reap $$ millions of
dollars in tax savings... it doesn't take a genius to figure out that those saved monies are effectively 'income'...
All of Bad-Boy's expenses, including operational monies, HELP UP's bottom line, in a POSITIVE direction, just as surely as ordinary 'income'.

Get your head out of "you-know-where", and smell the smoke...

W.

 

I would like to see a no diesel solo trip with a stack train like they did with the 3985 back in 2008 on Archer Hill. It's on the tube of you and easily found. 143 cars at 35 mph, pretty much much like the current power does with multiple units.

MWPerkins

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