Steam & Excursion > Santa Fe Steam Saturday

1. 2-8-8-2 1790 is ex- N&W 2021 class Y3, shown at Albuquerque, NM on 8/10/1947. Santa Fe purchased 8 (numbered 1790-1797) of these beauties for helper service on Raton Pass, and all but 1 (1797, I believe) were sold to the Virginian Railway in 1948. Photographer unknown.
2. 4-8-4 2912 is taking on water at Topeka,KS sometime in 1947. F.O. Kelly photo.
3. 2-10-4 5006 poses for W.O. Gibson at Topeka, KS on 7/19/1938. Looks like new so maybe being set up to start service?

Thanks for looking,

Tom

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Railfan4Christ Wrote:

> 3. 2-10-4 5006 poses for W.O. Gibson at Topeka, KS
> on 7/19/1938. Looks like new so maybe being set up
> to start service?

Received new at Chicago just ten days earlier.

Great steam roster photos.
Bob

Evan_Werkema Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Railfan4Christ Wrote:
>
> > 3. 2-10-4 5006 poses for W.O. Gibson at Topeka,
> KS
> > on 7/19/1938. Looks like new so maybe being set
> up
> > to start service?
>
> Received new at Chicago just ten days earlier.

Question: Obviously there had been other moves and deliveries of the big ATSF Super Power from Baldwin in Eddystone, PA, and the PRR use of 2-10-4 5000 Class before and since this photo of 5006. Is there any record of the route used?
I raised the question some 40-50 years ago with the men I worked with in train and engine service on the Illinois Division of the ATSF, who were working in the late steam era. Few had any recollection of new power being delivered as to specific locos as it was just a job for most. However, one man stood out as he was what we now call a Railfan. By the time we worked together he was an old head engineer named Harvey Williamson. I was a young brakeman at the time working the freight pool. Since the chain gang pools were out of sync we didn’t get to work much together. But when we did I asked Harvey about the delivery of the new locos he said the new big power, except the 3460 Class were to large and/or heavy for the bridges at MP 10, 9C, 24 B and to wide for the curve in the over pass of Stevens St in Lemont, IL.
Then he told me about a trip he worked during WW2: he was called to work as a fireman on a special double header eastbound with a 3776 Class 4-8-4 as the 2nd loco. It was a test run to see if the Engineering Dept. had accurately determined the dimensions of the big 3. They already were running the big 3460 Class Hudson’s in and out of Chicago daily (and equipped with ATC/cab signals) but the 2-10-4s and 4-8-4s did not run east of Shopton, Ft Madison, IA. So Harvey said they stopped short of Lemont, cut off the lead loco (an ATC equipped 2-8-2) then moved the 4-8-4 up to the narrow thru side girder over pass. The issue was that the tight curve on the overpass made the clearance even tighter. Harvey said they used a cutting torch (Mechanical crew was along for the ride) to remove the extra wide parts like the hand rails extending down from the cab. OK easy fix. Then they moved slowly forward to the 1890 era swing span bridge 24B. As they went across the span showed signs of overload. The same occurred at bridge 9C. There was a westbound move made later but the only thing we (SFRHMS) have is a photo of a Mike leading a 3776 Class up Edelstein Hill at MP 136 100+ miles west of the problem.
The decision was to wait for the modern diesel power and not go to the expense of equipping the big steam locos with ATC and cab signals.

Also when the PRR returned the 5011 Class 2-10-4 locos in the 1950 era the only known photos of them in Illinois is at Chillicothe, IL, in a dead line.
So if these big locos were delivered to ATSF in Chicago what route did they take? Inquiring minds want to know.
Steve Rippeteau

Posted from iPhone

railscenes Wrote:
--------------------------------
> Question: Obviously there had been other moves and
> deliveries of the big ATSF Super Power from
> Baldwin in Eddystone, PA, and the PRR use of
> 2-10-4 5000 Class before and since this photo of
> 5006. Is there any record of the route used?

I believe I saw a photo several years back, that showed either 2900 or 5011 class locomotives being loaded onto a car float near Baltimore, Maryland. The shot was from behind, with a caption that indicated the photo was taken near Sparrow's Point. The tender and boiler top piping were the giveaways as to which classes of locomotives they likely were. That would seem to suggest they may have been delivered via the B&O.

Posted from Android

bioyans Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> railscenes Wrote:
> --------------------------------
> > Question: Obviously there had been other moves
> and
> > deliveries of the big ATSF Super Power from
> > Baldwin in Eddystone, PA, and the PRR use of
> > 2-10-4 5000 Class before and since this photo
> of
> > 5006. Is there any record of the route used?
>
> I believe I saw a photo several years back, that
> showed either 2900 or 5011 class locomotives being
> loaded onto a car float near Baltimore, Maryland.
> The shot was from behind, with a caption that
> indicated the photo was taken near Sparrow's
> Point. The tender and boiler top piping were the
> giveaways as to which classes of locomotives they
> likely were. That would seem to suggest they may
> have been delivered via the B&O.
>
> Posted from Android

So was the loco going by water transport ... to where? Then by rail? What route to the ATSF? Maybe these locos were so large it required water route to a rail route around the close clearances, bridges, commuter platforms and tunnels?
I’d guess the Erie RR as it had the best clearances to the Midwest?
My main question is what route was used to move these extremely heavy and oversized locos from Chicago area west. I can understand the multitude of clearance problems on eastern RR routes but the mystery remains how were these locomotives delivered to the ATSF in the Midwest? The photo posted here of the 5006 says it was taken in Topeka, KS, 500 miles west of Chicago. Then the comment was made that the ATSF had just taken delivery of 5006 in Chicago.
Thanks for the east coast info.
Steve Rippeteau

Posted from iPhone



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/29/20 19:37 by railscenes.

The twelve 5011 Class 2-10-4's were delivered to the PRR in Chicago between May 3rd and May 11th 1956 and were returned to the Santa Fe in Chicago between November 25th and December 2nd 1956. The twelve engines were then placed in storage at Chillicothe,IL. They remained in Chillicothe until retired and scrapped.

sf5034 thank you. I’ve seen a photo of the line of 2-10-4 locos at Chilli after returning from the PRR that was taken by Stan Kistler on his trip East. He stood on top of an ice bunker refer to get an overhead photo as they were hidden by a long cut of refers stored right next to the big locos in the yard at Chilli. So your reply answers that time period.
However, unless the ATSF braced up the two old swing span bridges just west of Chicago and made the clearances wider for the 12 Texas locos, I still wonder if they took a different route to/from Chicago in order to get west of Joliet?
Later years, by the time I started on the ATSF in 1965 those old bridges were straight railed and locked into place as the newer barge tow boats had telescoping wheel house that could duck under the old bridges on the Chicago Illinois-Michigan canal system.
Steve Rippeteau

Posted from iPhone

Worley's "Iron Horses Of the Santa Fe Trail" shows brand new 5007 being brought into Kansas City at the Wabash's Delray yard, in 1939.  That might probvide a clue as to delivery routes into KC. Another photo on P.319 shows brand new 4-8-4 3784, being towed from KC to Topeka for set up by a 0-6-0.