Steam & Excursion > C&TSRR=In The Cab

Engineer Fireman School 2020
 

Roger Hogan
Chama, NM
Train Stuff

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More great cab footage Roger.

Bob Krieger
Cheyenne, WY

Bob3985 Wrote:
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> More great cab footage Roger.

Thank you Bob for commenting.

Roger Hogan
Chama, NM
Train Stuff

Makes me realize just how much I miss doing that.
Thanks Roger

Frisco1522 Wrote:
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> Makes me realize just how much I miss doing that.
> Thanks Roger

Glad we brought back good memories.

Roger Hogan
Chama, NM
Train Stuff

Dang.... You cut it off just when it got interesting.  The student got himself stuck on center and the engine wouldn't start the train.  You can see him briefly notch the throttle out until it overbalanced and essentially became wide open, then he quickly shut the throttle.  The instructor then took over.  You can see him muscling the Johnson Bar back over center (with the cylinders and vavles loaded with steam), then....... 

end of story.

Darn it.

I found myself looking at the ground from the gangway when starting and running to see how fast they were going. I could almost feel it in my office chair. Thanks  Roger.

Sam

Earlk Wrote:
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> Dang.... You cut it off just when it got
> interesting.  The student got himself stuck on
> center and the engine wouldn't start the train. 
> You can see him briefly notch the throttle out
> until it overbalanced and essentially became wide
> open, then he quickly shut the throttle.  The
> instructor then took over.  You can see him
> muscling the Johnson Bar back over center (with
> the cylinders and vavles loaded with steam),
> then....... 
>
> end of story.
>
> Darn it.

Looks like a roger bad. Sorry.

Roger Hogan
Chama, NM
Train Stuff

Trainhand Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I found myself looking at the ground from the
> gangway when starting and running to see how fast
> they were going. I could almost feel it in my
> office chair. Thanks  Roger.
>
> Sam

We are glad you liked it. Thanks for commenting.

Roger Hogan
Chama, NM
Train Stuff

Rick did a good job firing-fine work there-!

Roger another great view of a crew working that most fans never get to see. You have done one excellent job of filming this tough year!

We leave tonight on our next trip Roger, Soo line 1003 photo trip.


Chris

cozephyr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Rick did a good job firing-fine work there-!

I agree he did gooood.

Roger Hogan
Chama, NM
Train Stuff

Mudrock Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Roger another great view of a crew working that
> most fans never get to see. You have done one
> excellent job of filming this tough year!
>
> We leave tonight on our next trip Roger, Soo line
> 1003 photo trip.
>
>
> Chris

Chris is off again. Have fun and stay safe.

Roger Hogan
Chama, NM
Train Stuff

Really enjoy cab videos.  That last dead center brings back memories, only with screw reveresers.   Oh my the cranking back and forth. 

Tominde Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Really enjoy cab videos.  That last dead center
> brings back memories, only with screw
> reveresers.   Oh my the cranking back and
> forth. 

Thank you for commenting.

Roger Hogan
Chama, NM
Train Stuff

A few people have BC’d me about getting “stuck on center”, how it happens, and how to get “unstuck” without getting in trouble.
When starting a steam locomotive under heavy load, either with heavy tonnage, a steep ascending grade, or both, you need both sides of the locomotive pulling to get started.  The reverse gear is in full forward (In the Corner) and you need pretty close to full throttle to get enough steam pressure against the pistons to get things to move.  Once moving, if the load is not right at maximum tonnage, you can ease the throttle in to keep from slipping. 

Let me point out here we’re are talking about superheated locomotives with dome throttles – and lots of superheater unit piping between the throttle valve and the piston valves.  A front-end throttle would probably react a bit different.  As I have never had the pleasure of running a front-end throttle locomotive, I can’t comment on how they react.

If one of the crank pins is on front or back center, or even within a few degrees before center, you can’t get enough power to start.  The side on center will not create any pulling power.  If that side is a few degrees before center, you might creep forward to the center and stop…..

Now what do you do?  You’ve got the throttle wide open and nothing is happening……

If you're on a steep grade, say the 4% grade on the west side of Cumbres, close the throttle, and open the cylinder cocks and let the steam bleed off a bit.  When enough steam is bled off, you will start to creep back down the hill. Close the cylinder cocks.  When you’ve crept back about 1/8 of a turn, haul the throttle out wide open.  I didn’t mention the fact that the sanders are all running during this operation.  By backing off of center just a bit and opening the throttle wide, you should get moving, get over the first center and you’re on your way.
Now, if the grade is such that it won’t drag you back, you will have to back the engine off the center, get a little slack and attack it that way.  You’ve shut the throttle, but there is still a dry pipe and superheater full of steam.  You open the cylinder cocks, to vent the steam off, then start easing the Johnson Bar back.  As there is still steam against the valves,  the bar isn’t going to move freely, it will take two hands and arms to pull it back, as soon as you go into reverse, the engine is going to want back up – NOW.  So set some independent brake keep the back up move in check.  Once in reverse, close the cylinder cocks, ease back an 1/8 of a turn, and stop with the independent brake.  Put the Johnson Bar into the corner, kick the independent brake off and with the sanders running, grab a big handful of throttle.  Not too, much, you’ve got some slack in the train behind you, but enough to get over the first center and moving.
In the “don’t try this at home” department:  If you are blessed with power reverse, you can leave the throttle wide open, sanders running, and ease the reverser back until the locomotive just nudges back a bit, then put her in full forward, and quite often she will get moving.  I did this with the #18 on the SLRG in Alamosa when starting a heavy train on the 3% on La Veta Pass.
To keep from getting stuck in the first place.  When starting on a steep grade: Bar in the corner, sanders on, release the independent brake, let her roll back about a foot and rip the throttle wide open.  She will start nearly every time.
Then there is the occasion where the “locomotive was just not quite ready yet”.  We stopped on the hill out of Chama at a crossing to pick some late arriving passengers.  I got a highball from the conductor, and whistled off. I hit the sanders, released the independent, hauled back on the throttle and 487 just sat there.  Crap.  I slammed the throttle closed.  In a few seconds, Ii reached down to open the cylinder cocks.  In that amount of time, the steam against the pistons bled off enough to start us inching backwards, far enough to open the admission port on the now “not quite on center” cylinder.  The steam trapped in the dry pipe and superheaters was enough to start us moving forward and over the dead center – with the throttle closed.  “Well, if your ready NOW, lets go!”  The throttle came out and away we went. 
 
 
 

A few people have BC’d me about getting “stuck on center”, how it happens, and how to get “unstuck” without getting in trouble.
When starting a steam locomotive under heavy load, either with heavy tonnage, a steep ascending grade, or both, you need both sides of the locomotive pulling to get started.  The reverse gear is in full forward (In the Corner) and you need pretty close to full throttle to get enough steam pressure against the pistons to get things to move.  Once moving, if the load is not right at maximum tonnage, you can ease the throttle in to keep from slipping. 

Let me point out here we’re are talking about superheated locomotives with dome throttles – and lots of superheater unit piping between the throttle valve and the piston valves.  A front-end throttle would probably react a bit different.  As I have never had the pleasure of running a front-end throttle locomotive, I can’t comment on how they react.

If one of the crank pins is on front or back center, or even within a few degrees before center, you can’t get enough power to start.  The side on center will not create any pulling power.  If that side is a few degrees before center, you might creep forward to the center and stop…..

Now what do you do?  You’ve got the throttle wide open and nothing is happening……

If you're on a steep grade, say the 4% grade on the west side of Cumbres, close the throttle, and open the cylinder cocks and let the steam bleed off a bit.  When enough steam is bled off, you will start to creep back down the hill. Close the cylinder cocks.  When you’ve crept back about 1/8 of a turn, haul the throttle out wide open.  I didn’t mention the fact that the sanders are all running during this operation.  By backing off of center just a bit and opening the throttle wide, you should get moving, get over the first center and you’re on your way.

Now, if the grade is such that it won’t drag you back, you will have to back the engine off the center, get a little slack and attack it that way.  You’ve shut the throttle, but there is still a dry pipe and superheater full of steam.  You open the cylinder cocks, to vent the steam off, then start easing the Johnson Bar back.  As there is still steam against the valves,  the bar isn’t going to move freely, it will take two hands and arms to pull it back, as soon as you go into reverse, the engine is going to want back up – NOW.  So set some independent brake keep the back up move in check.  Once in reverse, close the cylinder cocks, ease back an 1/8 of a turn, and stop with the independent brake.  Put the Johnson Bar into the corner, kick the independent brake off and with the sanders running, grab a big handful of throttle.  Not too, much, you’ve got some slack in the train behind you, but enough to get over the first center and moving.

In the “don’t try this at home” department:  If you are blessed with power reverse, you can leave the throttle wide open, sanders running, and ease the reverser back until the locomotive just nudges back a bit, then put her in full forward, and quite often she will get moving.  I did this with the #18 on the SLRG in Alamosa when starting a heavy train on the 3% on La Veta Pass.

To keep from getting stuck in the first place.  When starting on a steep grade: Bar in the corner, sanders on, release the independent brake, let her roll back about a foot and rip the throttle wide open.  She will start nearly every time.

Then there was the occasion where the “locomotive was just not quite ready yet”.  We stopped on the hill out of Chama at a crossing to pick some late arriving passengers.  I got a highball from the conductor, and whistled off. I hit the sanders, released the independent, hauled back on the throttle and 487 just sat there.  Crap.  I slammed the throttle closed.  In a few seconds, I reached down to open the cylinder cocks.  In that amount of time, the steam against the pistons bled off enough to start us inching backwards, far enough to open the admission port on the now “not quite on center” cylinder.  The steam trapped in the dry pipe and superheaters was enough to start us moving forward and over the dead center – with the throttle closed.  “Well, if your ready NOW, lets go!”  The throttle came out and away we went. 

Sometimes the old girls just need a little convincing to get to work.....
 
 
 

Thanks Earl.

Roger Hogan
Chama, NM
Train Stuff

Earlk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A few people have BC’d me about getting “stuck
> on center”, how it happens, and how to get
> “unstuck” without getting in trouble.
> When starting a steam locomotive under heavy load,
> either with heavy tonnage, a steep ascending
> grade, or both, you need both sides of the
> locomotive pulling to get started.  The reverse
> gear is in full forward (In the Corner) and you
> need pretty close to full throttle to get enough
> steam pressure against the pistons to get things
> to move.  Once moving, if the load is not right
> at maximum tonnage, you can ease the throttle in
> to keep from slipping. 
>
> Let me point out here we’re are talking about
> superheated locomotives with dome throttles –
> and lots of superheater unit piping between the
> throttle valve and the piston valves.  A
> front-end throttle would probably react a bit
> different.  As I have never had the pleasure of
> running a front-end throttle locomotive, I can’t
> comment on how they react.
>
> If one of the crank pins is on front or back
> center, or even within a few degrees before
> center, you can’t get enough power to start. 
> The side on center will not create any pulling
> power.  If that side is a few degrees before
> center, you might creep forward to the center and
> stop…..
>
> Now what do you do?  You’ve got the throttle
> wide open and nothing is happening……
>
> If you're on a steep grade, say the 4% grade on
> the west side of Cumbres, close the throttle, and
> open the cylinder cocks and let the steam bleed
> off a bit.  When enough steam is bled off, you
> will start to creep back down the hill. Close the
> cylinder cocks.  When you’ve crept back about
> 1/8 of a turn, haul the throttle out wide open. 
> I didn’t mention the fact that the sanders are
> all running during this operation.  By backing
> off of center just a bit and opening the throttle
> wide, you should get moving, get over the first
> center and you’re on your way.
>
> Now, if the grade is such that it won’t drag you
> back, you will have to back the engine off the
> center, get a little slack and attack it that
> way.  You’ve shut the throttle, but there is
> still a dry pipe and superheater full of steam. 
> You open the cylinder cocks, to vent the steam
> off, then start easing the Johnson Bar back.  As
> there is still steam against the valves,  the bar
> isn’t going to move freely, it will take two
> hands and arms to pull it back, as soon as you go
> into reverse, the engine is going to want back up
> – NOW.  So set some independent brake keep the
> back up move in check.  Once in reverse, close
> the cylinder cocks, ease back an 1/8 of a turn,
> and stop with the independent brake.  Put the
> Johnson Bar into the corner, kick the independent
> brake off and with the sanders running, grab a big
> handful of throttle.  Not too, much, you’ve got
> some slack in the train behind you, but enough to
> get over the first center and moving.
>
> In the “don’t try this at home”
> department:  If you are blessed with power
> reverse, you can leave the throttle wide open,
> sanders running, and ease the reverser back until
> the locomotive just nudges back a bit, then put
> her in full forward, and quite often she will get
> moving.  I did this with the #18 on the SLRG in
> Alamosa when starting a heavy train on the 3% on
> La Veta Pass.
>
> To keep from getting stuck in the first place. 
> When starting on a steep grade: Bar in the corner,
> sanders on, release the independent brake, let her
> roll back about a foot and rip the throttle wide
> open.  She will start nearly every time.
>
> Then there was the occasion where the
> “locomotive was just not quite ready yet”.
>  We stopped on the hill out of Chama at a
> crossing to pick some late arriving passengers. 
> I got a highball from the conductor, and whistled
> off. I hit the sanders, released the independent,
> hauled back on the throttle and 487 just sat
> there.  Crap.  I slammed the throttle closed. 
> In a few seconds, I reached down to open the
> cylinder cocks.  In that amount of time, the
> steam against the pistons bled off enough to start
> us inching backwards, far enough to open the
> admission port on the now “not quite on
> center” cylinder.  The steam trapped in the dry
> pipe and superheaters was enough to start us
> moving forward and over the dead center – with
> the throttle closed.  “Well, if your ready NOW,
> lets go!”  The throttle came out and away we
> went. 
>
> Sometimes the old girls just need a little
> convincing to get to work.....
>  
>  
>
Kind of like us old guys.

Roger Hogan
Chama, NM
Train Stuff

Earl, in regard to your comment about front end throttles: they simply act more like a saturated dome throttle, as you might expect -- much quicker response opening and closing.