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Steam & Excursion > 1522 - Was it really louder than other steam engines?


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Date: 02/22/21 06:50
1522 - Was it really louder than other steam engines?
Author: milwrdfan

It's often been said that 1522 was a "loud" engine, with a very loud exhaust stack when it was working hard.  Was its exhaust really louder than other steam locomotives, and if so, what was the reason for the louder exhaust chuffing?  Was it unique to the 1522, to Baldwin locos, to Frisco, specific valve gear setup, or something else?



Date: 02/22/21 07:04
Re: 1522 - Was it really louder than other steam engines?
Author: tomstp

Can not answer your question but:  a SP engineer told me that T&P 2-10-4's had a very loud exhaust under load.



Date: 02/22/21 07:18
Re: 1522 - Was it really louder than other steam engines?
Author: HotWater

Just my opinion but, in my experience the CB&Q 5632 was the loudest steam locomotive I've ever experienced, and the Burlington men tell that the CB&Q S4 class Hudsons were even louder than the O5 Northerns.



Date: 02/22/21 07:26
Re: 1522 - Was it really louder than other steam engines?
Author: Keystone1

HotWater.....my vote is with you for the for the 5632.  I've never heard a louder engine.



Date: 02/22/21 08:42
Re: 1522 - Was it really louder than other steam engines?
Author: UP3806

Agree about the '32, especially when riding right behind in an open gondola as it accelerated along the Mississippi palisades!

Tom



Date: 02/22/21 08:46
Re: 1522 - Was it really louder than other steam engines?
Author: g-spotter1

Of the restored steam engines 1522 was clearly the loudest, in my opinion.  The "square" staccato character to its exhaust note enhanced the "loud factor."  One crack of the throttle and there was a striking report at any speed.  3751 is also very loud under throttle and load.  Baldwins seem to have a nice bark to them in general.  My father said that the Santa Fe 2-10-2's were ear splitting as they marched up the Tehachapi mountains, and could be heard working up the pass long before they eventually arrived.  I'm sure there are plenty of contenders out there when operated under the right conditions.  As for the quietest?  UP 844 and disappointingly, UP 4014.



Date: 02/22/21 11:57
Re: 1522 - Was it really louder than other steam engines?
Author: Oski3751

Loudness is probably also related to nozzle/stack design and backpressure. I seem to recall that oil burners had smaller nozzles (with higher backpressure) to provide more draft. Also, if the valves are undersized compared to the cylinders, it can also cause a "choking" effect, resulting in high back-pressure (this was an issue with the 3751 class before they were rebuilt).

Regarding the UP engines, the double stacks and two sets of nozzles would certainly quiet then down. Also, at the risk of stirring the pot, 4014 seems to be more of a "show pony"; there are videos of the Challenger running unassisted, making a lot more noise.

Posted from iPhone



Date: 02/22/21 12:41
Re: 1522 - Was it really louder than other steam engines?
Author: Bob3985

g-spotter1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
  UP 844 and disappointingly, UP 4014.

You should have been in the cab of 844 with me when we shoved the stalled freight up to Archer.
All locomotives are loud under heavy load at slow speeds.

Bob Krieger
Cheyenne, WY



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/22/21 19:00 by Bob3985.



Date: 02/22/21 12:43
Re: 1522 - Was it really louder than other steam engines?
Author: Hillcrest

Starting with 4449 in 1975 I've seen/heard most of the restored mainline steam (not 611) and any of them under the right circumstances can certainly get your attention but, under normal conditions such as starting a train or accelerating, pulling a slight grade? In my opinion yeah, it'd be 1522. There was a quality to the quantity of its sound that just made it feel like you were lookin' at a Hot Rod. 

Cheers, Dave



Date: 02/22/21 13:23
Re: 1522 - Was it really louder than other steam engines?
Author: Frisco1522

I'm not allowed to vote as I'm biased.  1522 could be ear splitting when she was angry.  I've been responsible for making noise of Biblical proportion with her.  I've seen vidio with good audio of her coming at you, whistle blowing for a crossing and the bell ringing and you can't hear either one.
Jim Boyd once said "Loud enought to wake the cremated".
I have gone through cuts with her wide open and it actually was like a gunshot going off text to you as far as hurts your ears.
I have tinnitus and some loss from hear, but Damn it was worth it.
If also been on 3985 and was amazed how loud she was with a heavy train and openit up.
5632 was a barker, am I'm told RDG T1s are lout.
Frisco was known for loud engines.  I was talking with an old guy who was from Denison, TX.  Frisco leased several 1500s to the T&NO and he told me that everyone in town knew when they were starting a train.   I've heard the same thing from Frisco 4200 huge mikes that everyone knew all over Ft. Scott, KS when they started.  BM&R 425 doesn't have to be ashamed either.
Amusingly, my Dad (a Frisco engineer) always said MP steam always sounded like they were working water.  We had 1522 fired up at St. Louis U Station and an old guy was talking to me and said he always loved hearing the Frisco engines and the MPs always sounded to him like the were working water.  I had to laugh at that on.
Used to lay in bed in Maplewood, MO and could hear both roads, Frisco working out of Lindenwood yard and MP running for Kirkwood hill.  Both roads were upgrade and I could lay there and listen to them for a long time.  MP was usually using a helper engine to boot.
Wish I could do that again.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/22/21 13:28 by Frisco1522.



Date: 02/22/21 14:26
Re: 1522 - Was it really louder than other steam engines?
Author: MaryMcPherson

I have to agree that #1522 is the loudest locomotive I have ever heard.

Surprisingly, Tennessee Valley 2-8-0 #610 comes in second in my experience.  765 and 611 will certainly raise a ruckus, while 3985 and 844 had a softer exhaust but could ramp up the volume when they wanted to.  I remember 630 running solo on mainline trips to Cleveland, Tennessee, and she came blasting through Tucker Springs sounding like a jet airplane at takeoff.  None of the other Southern engines I've seen were working hard enough to make that much of a racket, though they've had their moments.

The quietest locomotive I ever heard was Crab Orchard & Egyptian #17, though it rarely had much more than a handful of cars and was always moving at slow speed on mostly flat rail.

Mary McPherson
Dongola, IL
Diverging Clear Productions



Date: 02/22/21 15:25
Re: 1522 - Was it really louder than other steam engines?
Author: wcamp1472

The UP 844, 3985 & 4014 all have 'Multi-port" exhaust equipped).
They used 4 separate exhaust ports shooting up into 4 separate 
miniature petticoat pipes ( 'collectors/confinors)  .. the 4 small, petticoat pipes
were fed into the main stack base --- which was shaped like a. 4-leaf clover,
and combined into one of two stacks, out the top.

The multi-port design yields higher surface impingement areas
for entraining smokebox gasses compared to the very common 
single- jet blast pipe and single petticoat -based smoke stack.

The UP -variant of the multi-port design meant lower flow resistance 
(back pressure) to the immense quantity steam during starting,
while yielding greater draft rates at high speeds, and. way-lower steam
consumption.

They had very low back pressures in the passages below the exhaust nozzle
bases..  also reflecting much lower back pressures at the piston faces.

The strong drafting effectiveness, regardless of the fire's fuel  ( coal, as well as oil) is
demonstrated by the fuel change-overs required in firebox areas;  but,  virtually
NO changes in the drafting apparatus in the front smoke box...  the multi-port design
drafts the fire equally as well, whether with stong starting drafts or with minimal steam
up the stack , while speeding along---- the quantity of  air pulled through the grates
( fire-pan) is uniformly high regardless of the speeds and the intensity of the cut-offs
as set by the valve gears' cut-off adjustments....  
You'll not get a loud report --- without a heavy load behind the tender.

Soft exhaust = Light train/grade loading.

With conventional single petticoat pipe exhaust schemes, a lot of the 
noise quantity had to do with the relative proportions of the exhaust nozzle 
land the base diameters  of the petticoat pipes --- by various loco classes and 
past-practices of individual RRs.

Another factor that diminished loudness of exhaust noises was the use 
of feed water heaters ---- 'open'  or 'closed'.   Feedwater heater heat-exchangers 
took some of the cripspness & loudness out of conventional exhaust arrangements,
compared to similar locos using two injectors, only.

Also affecting loudness was the relative proportions of the spool -valves and the 
diameters of the spool valve cages that surround the spools.   The porting there can have
a direct impact on the steam-flow freedom from restrictions --- on the way up the stack..

An early mentor of mine was railfan, George Hart. ( Hart used a 'post card' Kodak camera
to take RR pictures during the 1930s and '40s), who was the first person, for me,  who pointed
out that feewater heater equipped locos were commonly much quieter than "non-heater" equipped
comparable-sized locos.

W.

Not proofed, yet..) 


 



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 02/22/21 16:24 by wcamp1472.



Date: 02/22/21 16:04
Re: 1522 - Was it really louder than other steam engines?
Author: MP4093

I have to agree about 1522. I did not get an opportunity to hear 5632, and as noted most any locomotive will bark under the right circumstances, but I have heard and ridden behind dozens, large and small, in the last several decades and 1522 stands out as consistently loud under almost any load. One of the best steam shows I ever witnessed was right here in my back yard when Frisco 1522 pulled a tonnage train over Tiger Hill unassisted, it was like a battery of shotguns going off as she climbed the westbound ruling grade on the Cherokee Subdivision. I have lived near the foot of Tiger Hill 30 years and been watching trains battle the grade over 50, and I have never seen such a spectacle, before or since. Thanks for the memories Don.



Date: 02/22/21 16:41
Re: 1522 - Was it really louder than other steam engines?
Author: salrwy

It was well known that Lima locomotives had loud exhaust. 1522 was a Baldwin locomotive, but even some of those had loud exhausts due to the construction of the smokebox and petticoat pipe. Some locomotives were quiet and muffled.

I rode behind 1522 in 1993 from Memphis to Birmingham. It was truly loud.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/22/21 17:36 by salrwy.



Date: 02/22/21 18:15
Re: 1522 - Was it really louder than other steam engines?
Author: Tominde

All the engines were louder 30 or 40 years ago.  And I didn't need hearing aides to hear them.



Date: 02/22/21 18:29
Re: 1522 - Was it really louder than other steam engines?
Author: run8

ATTN: Hot Water. I concur 100% that CB&Q #5632 was the loudest engine I have heard in my 70 years of being a rail fan. Riding in the baggage car behind the engine was almost paramount to physical ear abuse. After a Sunday fan trip it wasn't until Tuesday that my hearing returned to normal. And riding behind that engine in an open gondola car was a life changing experience. I don't know how the stack didn't get ripped off of the smoke box.



Date: 02/22/21 18:36
Re: 1522 - Was it really louder than other steam engines?
Author: RuleG

The Reading & Northern 425 has a reputation for being a loud locomotive.  In 2016, I stopped in Jim Thorpe, PA to watch and hear it depart and it lived up to its reputation.  I've never seen or heard 1522, so I cannot say how 425 compares.



Date: 02/22/21 22:25
Re: 1522 - Was it really louder than other steam engines?
Author: IC_2024

The ex- Reading 2101 was the LOuDEST engine ever— I was there as a 14 yr-old seeing her Thunder by on a photo run-by outside of Peru, IN w/ Ross at the throttle —
She was deafening !



Date: 02/23/21 15:49
Re: 1522 - Was it really louder than other steam engines?
Author: MontourMan

Reading T-1,
I have been involved with three of them, they are the loudest and have a most deafening roar at high speeds.



Date: 02/23/21 17:35
Re: 1522 - Was it really louder than other steam engines?
Author: SantaFe

I never got to see the 5632, but I can attest to the 1522. In 96 they ran a trip from Topeka to Emporia and they stopped on the side of Wakarusa hill at MP 64 roughly on the Topeka sub and did a photo run by. Holy macroll it was like standing in the middle of a thunderstorm with the earth shaking beneath you. I believe Locopilot750 was in the cab as the pilot that day.

Posted from iPhone



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