Steam & Excursion > Unknown locomotive info requested

I came across this image just minutes ago and I can only assume the location is the Northwestern United States or Western Canada in the rockies. I don't have a road to go by or a photographer. Any help? It sure is interesting with the front driver set having it's cylinders opposed from the rear driver set.

---

there is a "c" on the coach, CP ?  

Wow, a compound 0-6-6-0, Martin will know what this one was!
The cylinders have to be close to each other so the steam doesn't have far to travel.
G

One of six R-1 0-6-6-0s rostered by the Canadian Pacific.  Not a particularly successful design, as all of them were rebuilt as 2-10-0s. 

The square-ish box on top is just as interesting as the opposed cyinders, in my opinion. Maybe a steam "box"?

What a beast!

Did it articulate? Kinda hard to tell. The steps are suspended above the pilot as are the airtanks but....

Cheers, Dave

Perfect timing! I was just reading about these early CP Mallets and their odd set up. Great to see a clear picture of one. Thank you!

Posted from iPhone

That would be a very long wheel base if it wasn't articulated.

Tom

Advertisement for " ugly".

A true 'saturated, compounded'  loser of a design...
Coupled with impossibly-small,  frirebox/grate area,
it's no wonder they were soon converted..
?The revised & rebuilt locos were superheated?

The era of saturated locos ended with a loud thud,
as the rapid adoption of schemes based on the Schmidt
superheater proliferated. 
( Thank, Gawd).

​W.

TexasRocket Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The square-ish box on top is just as interesting
> as the opposed cyinders, in my opinion. Maybe a
> steam "box"?

Not a saturated engine, Wes  It has a unique vertical superheater.  Note the "dry pipe" from the steam dome to the box, and another pipe from the box to the HP cylinders.  It apparently was tried on the first of the engines, but not on the 5 copies.  Looks like a joint for a Baldwin style separable boiler below th box.

Built in the CP's Angus Shops. Wonder if it was liscensed by Baldwin.

Those engines were built for the newly constructed line thru the Spiral Tunnels - 2.2 % grade, 2,921 ft and 3,255 ft long.  Hell on Wheels, then.  Still is.

-LD



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 04/21/21 13:49 by LarryDoyle.

I thought the headlight gave this away as CPR. Same headlight as the 4-4-0's at Chipman in 1960.

Posted from Android

Saturated ...cont'd ...

"It has a unique
> vertical superheater."

So, how does the flame path impinge the superheater units--- in order
to materially increase heat to the steam flowing to the cylinders ?

What is a "vertical superheater"......  Are there superheater tubes running inside larger
diameter superheater flues ---- like the Schmidt-pattern superheaters?

What is purpose of the boiler section between the stack and the 'square box' ?

Also, it looks like all cylinders are operated by out-dated "D valves".... what's with
THAT?  

I doubt that the "vertical superheater" actually added any beneficial superheat to the steam flow,
&  was a dismal failure in this application.

​W.




 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/21/21 15:50 by wcamp1472.

Amazing the different methods that were conceived to make locomotives operate.

wcamp1472 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Saturated ...cont'd ...
>
> "It has a unique
> > vertical superheater."
>
> So, how does the flame path impinge the
> superheater units--- in order
> to materially increase heat to the steam flowing
> to the cylinders ?
>
> What is a "vertical superheater"......  Are there
> superheater tubes running inside larger
> diameter superheater flues ---- like the
> Schmidt-pattern superheaters?
>
> What is purpose of the boiler section between the
> stack and the 'square box' ?
>
> Also, it looks like all cylinders are operated by
> out-dated "D valves".... what's with
> THAT?  
>
> I doubt that the "vertical superheater" actually
> added any beneficial superheat to the steam flow,
> &  was a dismal failure in this application.
>
> ​W.

Here's some of what Lionel Wiener has to say about these marvels, designed in 1909.  The boiler is VERY similiar to Baldwin separable boiler engines.

"In the front ot the boiler there is a feed-water heater, followed by a superheater.  The feedwater heater has a tube assemblage similar to that of the boiler itself, with which it communicates by two pipes, one at the center and one at the top; both are external.
"The superheater (which gives a superheat of 83 C) consists of sixty-nine double loop vertical elements.  They are located across the path of the flue gasses between the boiler proper and the feed-water heater"

-LD

---

---

---

The claims about ANY beneficial superheating effects from this loco’s arrangement are TOTAL B.S.

Superheating only occurs where
searing hot flame tips can heat
the superheater tubes-up (that are
carried inside the boiler flues).

The first section of this boiler is all water surrounding the submerged
boiler tubes and firebox sheets... a conventional fire-tube boiler.

Boiler water is ‘cold’ compared to flame temps and combustion gasses. However, those hot gasses, divided into a hundred
small streams — inside the boiler tubes, soon are cooled down to the water temperature in under 30” of traveling down the tubes surrounded by the colder water.

There is no-way that flue gasses entering that ‘superheater chamber’
containing these units are still hot enough to raise steam in the units by anything more than the water temperature in the first section of the boiler.

The same goes for the fiction that there is any material benefit derived
from in the ‘feedwater heater’ boiler section.

Even heavily over-firing this loco will never generate the hot flue gasses
necessary to do the necessary heating to either add superheat or
get the feedwater any more than tepid temps.

Superheating only occurrs under strong drafting, with white-hot fires,
Intensely heated brick-work, and on level to up-grade trackage —- together with sufficient trailing cars to properly ‘load’ the boiler at it’s designed capacity.

It’s easy to understand why this beast was later cut up to make two locos.

W.

Posted from iPhone



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/22/21 13:27 by wcamp1472.

Compared to SuperPower built 4 decades later, yeah, its a piece of junk.     But....

Canadian Pacific replaced saturated, narrow firebox 2-8-0's running on the 4% Field Hill line with a feedwater heated, superheated, wide firebox boiler on a brand new 2.2% line in 1909. It had 150 F superheat the 2-8-0's didn/t have.  I'd bet the results impressed CP officials.  Yes, the Schmidt superheater and many other rapid developments of locomotive design obsoleted this CP machine a year later. It appears this CP engine may have been proof of concept for separable boilers - as Baldwin introduced theirs in 1910.  Feedwater improvements obsoleted the separable boiler within a couple of years as well, but for a brief period Baldwin sold a lot of them..

-LD



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/22/21 19:50 by LarryDoyle.

The historical perspective is important.
Also, its typical for old concepts to continue to be manufactured at the
same time as revolutionary and new principles were being developed,
introduced and combined....

At the dawn of the introduction of successful superheaters, its important 
to remember that a lot of the former designs and concepts were still on the
drawing-boards of factories at that time.

The early developments led to revolutionary changes, yet it took decades 
for successful engines to come off the assembly lines.

​W-

BTW, the initial post shows this initial engine as a Mallet compound  (That vertical horseshoe of plumbing above the 4th driver is the articulated LP steam pipe).  A total of 6 were built. I'm a little confused about the those last 5. Is this the only example with the vertical superheater, or there may have been three?  The last 3 or 5 engines were apparently 4 cylinder simple engines, not Mallets.

-LD



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/22/21 15:15 by LarryDoyle.