Steam & Excursion > The Famous City Once Saw Many Trains Like This Each & Every Day!

The last trains on the Virginia & Truckee left Virginia City in the summer of 1938.  In the decades prior to that this once booming mining town saw at times literally dozens of train come and go from it each day.  By the time this photo was taken in the early 1930's the town saw at best one train a day.

On this sunny day we see V&T 4-6-0 #27 building up her fire as she prepares to depart the Virginia City depot and head down the hill back to Carson City, Nevada.  #27 was the last new locomotive purchased by the V&T and is now owned by the State of Nevada.  Today she rests on display in a building just a few feet to the right of where the photographer taking this photo was standing.

Martin



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/22/21 03:18 by LoggerHogger.

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How long does it take to "build up" an oil burners fire?

PHall Wrote:
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> How long does it take to "build up" an oil burners
> fire?

It just depends on how low you have let the pressure drop before lighting her back off.

Martin

PHall Wrote:
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> How long does it take to "build up" an oil burners
> fire?

Please don't nit pick between "building the fire" and building steam pressure.  The intent was clear!

How about from light-off at 0 psi to 180 in 3 hours.  Started with 1/4 glass.  This was on Clover Valley #4 from my notes from Dec 1983..

rusticmike6 Wrote:
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> How about from light-off at 0 psi to 180 in 3
> hours.  Started with 1/4 glass.  This was on
> Clover Valley #4 from my notes from Dec 1983..

This will vary as well.  You could have a boiler that is still warm from the day before but has gone down to 0 pressure.  That will not take nearly as long to get up operating pressure as a boiler that is stone cold.

Martin

Elesco Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> PHall Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > How long does it take to "build up" an oil
> burners
> > fire?
>
> Please don't nit pick between "building the fire"
> and building steam pressure.  The intent was
> clear!

I was confused so I asked a question. IS THAT A PROBLEM???

Learn how to use the "private reply" button.

PHall Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Elesco Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > PHall Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > How long does it take to "build up" an oil
> > burners
> > > fire?
> >
> > Please don't nit pick between "building the
> fire"
> > and building steam pressure.  The intent was
> > clear!
>
> I was confused so I asked a question. IS THAT A
> PROBLEM???

Actually, I thought your question about how long to build up an oil fire was sarcastic.   But I guess without boiler pressure or house steam, it can take quite a while just to get a hot fire.  And of course you don't want the fire too hot with a cool firebox.

Sorry.

With a 'conventional' locomotive oil burner, the heated oil drools 
out onto a shelf, and a steam-jet, in the form of a flat fan, carries and atomizes
the oil.

Since the liquid must be a gas before it can combine with O2 gas, heat must 
boil the droplets to release the carbon molecules...

So you need steam for atomizing the drool and you need to heat the oil
( ahead of the burner..)

 If you have access to an external steam supply, near 100 psi, the fire-up could be
a simple proposition.   

if you're starting WITHOUT an external steam supply, you gotta build a wood fire and
feed it often enough to build the loco's pressure to near 100 psi.

Before you light the burner, you've got to scrape all the wood ashes out of the firepan...
'cause they could affect the free airflow and flame pattern.  The firepan's  floor must be 
swept clean....however you manage to do that.

And, as cited earlier, a warm boiler is a definite asset...if starting with cold ground water, you want
to be very slow and deliberate to bring the boiler water very gently up to near 100 psi, before
getting more aggressive. 

Firing up from a cold start, whether a wood, coal or oil burning loco, is always best
to take 12 -hours or longer to uniformly heat up all that boiler steel.

Repeated fire-up and cool-down cycles are very destructive to the firebox sheets,
and such practices  lead to metal fatigue-cracking of the fire box sheets ---- especially
at the lower corners, and at the front of the crown-sheet, where it joins the rear tube sheet.

All the rigidly- mounted boiler tubes are submerged in the cold water, yet the crown sheet
is the roof. of the furnace and is subjected to the greatest heat and the greatest amount
 of physical, linear expansion,  as the crown attempts to expand;  yet, it's forward end
( front knuckle) is solidly held in place by the water submerged tubes---- causing the
top knuckle-curl to roll forward slightly under the forces of expansion.  The repeated 
back-and-forth rolling motion leads to cracking across the entire curled section.

That repeated 'rolling' at the knuckle- curl shortens the life of the rear tube sheet 
by causing longitudinal cracks --  which weaken the 3/8" sheet.
Fan trip use, with multiple firing-up cycles,  is some of the most destructive
thermal-cycling events in a large loco's lifecycle.

Smaller boilers are subject to smaller amounts of actual of sheet-expansion
dimensions.

​W.

( To my ears, the most painful sounds are the expansion related Pops, Pows,
creaks and groans of a loco boiler as it is raised to pressure during those too-aggressive
fire-ups.    Former fan-trip veteran, Ex-CP 1278, has evidence of extensive, deep cracking
at the front curl of its crown sheet..)



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 04/23/21 08:48 by wcamp1472.

Wes, thank you for the excellent explanation.

I think back in the day, the railroads would keep steam locomotives hot day and night.  I remember in particular, seeing the Southern Pacific Del Monte, with P6 Pacific 2454, sitting overnight at Pacific Grove, California.  The train was waiting for the return run to San Francisco the following morning.

As I recall, there was no shop facility at Pacific Grove other than a shed with tools and supplies needed for light repairs and lubrication, and for sure no other locomotives were around.  But SP had an engine watchman sitting in the cab, keeping the fire going in the firebox and the engine continuously hot overnight. He invited my dad and I into the cab and opened the firebox door so we could see the flame.

Yes....

That was common both in
commuter lay-over points,
and in larger roundhouses where
Fleets of engines slumbered, but kept alive, between assignments

They were tended by watchmen who’s main job was adding water
to all the engines that had live fires...
as well as readying the coal firebed
for impending assignments.

Typically the watchmen were ‘idled’
loco crew members, who received
the pay per their ‘labor agreements’...

Was also the main intent of using ‘low water alarms’...
Neglected boilers with low water levels.... would set off their shrieking alarms to get
the attention they needed.

Although there were ways to reduce the shrieking, the alarms continued to blow steam
until the exposed end of the alarm’s siphon tube was submerged by the rising boiler water levels.
... then, you had to wait for the external sensing device to cool down.... allowing the steam to
condense down to cold water.

The cold water as retained in the device until the siphon pipe was again drained
..by neglect or maintenance..

W.

( The two largest vendors were Barco and Nathan,  Barco used chamber with a float
connected to a steam valve & line supplying the cab whistle.  When the chamber is operational,
the water in the bowl lifts the float, keeping the whistle quiet.. when the boiler water level drops
to expose siphon pipe base, the  water runs out and the float drops & opens the steam line to the whistle...

Nathan used a long 1 1/2" copper tube, --- when, or if, the trapped water drained out, hot steam
filled the tube, which lengthened and activated a steam valve and blew the cab whistle.
The whistle blew, until the cooled tube shrank & was restored ( shortened) by the rising water in the boiler.

As the Nathan's steam-filled pipe, when cooled down, the steam condensed and drew water up into the
cooled pipe.   Neither device had a means to stop the blowing alarm [purposely designed that way] ...
both types waited for tne steam in the device to cool off and condense --- once the water level in the
boiler was restored,  Eventually the screaming stopped ).

Posted from iPhone



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 04/23/21 17:35 by wcamp1472.