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Steam & Excursion > Running In Reverse, #1309 Returning from Frostburg, MD - 05/07/22


Date: 05/08/22 08:11
Running In Reverse, #1309 Returning from Frostburg, MD - 05/07/22
Author: DTWilson

WMSR #1309 on the return to Cumberland running backwards. GP30 #501 lead down off the mountain.
It may not be the most ideal situation but until the turntable issue is resolved, why not document this part of #1309's history on the Western Maryland Scenic Railroad.

1) Westbound facing #1309 travelling east At Trimble Road Crossing.

2) Also at Trimble Rd. Crossing.

3) In the Narrows outside Cumberland, MD along Wills Creek.

Tim W.


 








Date: 05/08/22 08:25
Re: Running In Reverse, #1309 Returning from Frostburg, MD - 05/0
Author: TomPlatten

I watched an old "blurb" about WMSR using two Alco's. I was impressed that the track seemed to be in good shape! I guess it will have to be to support #1309! It is a beautiful locomotive!

 



Date: 05/08/22 09:02
Re: Running In Reverse, #1309 Returning from Frostburg, MD - 05/0
Author: krm152

Wonderful steam scenes.  Thanks for posting your photos.
ALLEN



Date: 05/08/22 09:26
Re: Running In Reverse, #1309 Returning from Frostburg, MD - 05/0
Author: gregscholl

Whats the deal with the road next to the tracks.  Used to be all gravel and a RR access road.  I thought this was to be a bike path and a fence between the path and the Railroad.  Of course the last time I was there was 1995!!!  Looks like tire tracks on the blacktop there.
Greg



Date: 05/08/22 09:35
Re: Running In Reverse, #1309 Returning from Frostburg, MD - 05/0
Author: wcamp1472

These similar engines spent half of their coal-service miles backing-down out 
of "hills-an'-hollers" of the coal mines in itheir 1950's life.

They needed to be flexible as could be, and never were near the capabilities 
of their bigger cousins.  They needed light axle loadings, plenty of flexibility, short
coupled-wheel bases since they ran on very uneven, old track that was there 'world' 
and rarely saw turntables and wyes... Low speeds and being adept at rerailing cars
and them selves --- many times.   I'd bet that old pictures of their tender's decks would show 
stacks of sawn oak-blocking & wedges ---- for use in rerailing errant coal car's wheelsets.

There are several movies of Y-class N&W engines in coal mine service...it was fairly
rugged, bad track, to and around the coal mines....with a lot of back-up moves, in and out 
of many coal mines and their switching yards.

Part of the design of the radial bumpers between engine and trader was to have the tender 
apply 'steering" guidance when running in reverse.   The tender and the buffers will lead the
rear engine frame more smoothly into the curves and twists when traveling in reverse, with a train
,attached to the engine's front coupler.  That guiding effect reduces the excessive flange-wear
of the trailer truck wheels and the rear drivers'  flanges

Hard 'Shoving'  forces from the engine to the train, through the tender will be problematic,
possiby leading to derailments. Light or empty cars are easier to shove, as well as down-hill trackage.  

Reverse, down-hill movements generslly mean that the cars, or coaches,
are pulling against the engine, leading it through curves and track switches
All of which makes backing with a train easier, as long as you don't have to 
shove really hard.  Hard shoving against the tender forces the engine's (rear wheels )
against the outer rails of curves....which can prematurely wear the affected wheel sets.

W.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/08/22 12:33 by wcamp1472.



Date: 05/08/22 11:35
Re: Running In Reverse, #1309 Returning from Frostburg, MD - 05/0
Author: ClubCar

Once again, thanks for sharing your photos with all of us, Tim.  They are really appreciated.
John in White Marsh, Maryland



Date: 05/08/22 14:18
Re: Running In Reverse, #1309 Returning from Frostburg, MD - 05/0
Author: Tominde

gregscholl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Whats the deal with the road next to the tracks.
>  Used to be all gravel and a RR access road.  I
> thought this was to be a bike path and a fence
> between the path and the Railroad.  Of course the
> last time I was there was 1995!!!  Looks like
> tire tracks on the blacktop there.
> Greg

Greg, indeed it is a bike/hiking path, only paved.  There is no fence.  I'm not aware of any pedestrian strikes.

 



Date: 05/08/22 15:01
Re: Running In Reverse, #1309 Returning from Frostburg, MD - 05/0
Author: Theowhitey

What's the deal with the road next to the tracks?  Used to be double track!
/Ted




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/08/22 20:48 by Theowhitey.



Date: 05/08/22 15:05
Re: Running In Reverse, #1309 Returning from Frostburg, MD - 05/0
Author: Theowhitey

Nice photos, Tim. Especially like the B&W.
/Ted



Date: 05/08/22 15:53
Re: Running In Reverse, #1309 Returning from Frostburg, MD - 05/0
Author: refarkas

Your black and white image is beautiful.
Bob



Date: 05/09/22 05:34
Re: Running In Reverse, #1309 Returning from Frostburg, MD - 05/0
Author: cutboy1958

Can not  wait  to  visit. Turntable  issue?



Date: 05/09/22 07:26
Re: Running In Reverse, #1309 Returning from Frostburg, MD - 05/0
Author: mp208

Tim. What IS the turntable issue??  
 



Date: 05/09/22 10:11
Re: Running In Reverse, #1309 Returning from Frostburg, MD - 05/0
Author: DTWilson

mp208 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tim. What IS the turntable issue??  
>  

As posted on Facebook by the CMO of the Western Maryland Scenic.
"Concerning the Frostburg turntable, 1309 does fit. However, currently we will not be able to utilize the turntable until the approach tracks are adjusted vertically and the curve eased on the inside track. No timeline has been made on this happening. For the foreseeable future, trains will be ran push-pull style with a diesel leading back to Cumberland."


 



Date: 05/09/22 19:47
Re: Running In Reverse, #1309 Returning from Frostburg, MD - 05/0
Author: Gonut1

Tim,
Thank you for removing the mystery as to why there was a turntable issue. I'm not so sure why it had to be such a mystery to we "un-informed". 
Maybe just reopen the tunnel under Frostburg and run the beast down the former Georges Creek line through Ocean. Ooops! Never mind it ain't even there anymore.So much history lost!
But I'm glad the  C&O 1309 is burnishing WM rails.
Gonut



Date: 05/11/22 11:01
Re: Running In Reverse, #1309 Returning from Frostburg, MD - 05/0
Author: PlyWoody

DTWilson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> mp208 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Tim. What IS the turntable issue??  
> >  
>
> As posted on Facebook by the CMO of the Western
> Maryland Scenic.
> "Concerning the Frostburg turntable, 1309 does
> fit. However, currently we will not be able to
> utilize the turntable until the approach tracks
> are adjusted vertically and the curve eased on the
> inside track. No timeline has been made on this
> happening. For the foreseeable future, trains will
> be ran push-pull style with a diesel leading back
> to Cumberland."
>
>
>
Per that Facebook report the new Manager must be stuck on the last engineering report that was erred by claiming that the turntable must be level and can not be changed if they need a vertical curve for the locomotive 1309.  They can shim the center of the turntable rails and create any vertical curve needed for the locomotive, or put new timber on the turntable  and hump the railsl   I also showed long while ago the following diagram of how three people could measure the existing track to see if any vertical curve is needed and posted it here: https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?10,5094750  
 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/22 13:15 by PlyWoody.



Date: 05/12/22 17:23
Re: Running In Reverse, #1309 Returning from Frostburg, MD - 05/0
Author: ns1000

Great pics!!



Date: 05/15/22 13:18
Re: Running In Reverse, #1309 Returning from Frostburg, MD - 05/0
Author: DavidP

Theowhitey Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What's the deal with the road next to the
> tracks?  Used to be double track!
> /Ted

It's the Great Allegheny Passage bike trail, which along with the C&O Canal Towpath form a continuous 335-mile route from Washington to Pittsburgh.  I'm planning to ride it beginning next Sunday from DC.

Dave



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