Steam & Excursion > Question re: Western Maryland Scenic Railroad

Maybe someone reading this can answer a question.  I realize that the Western Maryland Scenic Railroad only operates their steam engine 2-6-6-2 #1309 on certain days.  However, they operate their diesel trains on other days, which does make sense for their Polar Express short excursions.  However, I do not understand as to why they bring this passenger train over from their Ridgely Yard to the station in Cumberland hours before their trips.  To me, this is a terrible waste of diesel fuel since they have two diesel engines, one on each end, plus the diesel generator power car to support the electricity in the passenger cars.  The Western Maryland Scenic R.R. is a non-profit organization and they have been soliciting for donations over the years.  I have contributed money myself; however, it is aggravating to see this diesel powered train sitting for hours in front of the WM station just wasting diesel fuel.  Can anyone with genuine knowledge of their operations explain this to me?
John in White Marsh, Maryland

I have no genuine knowledge of the operation...

But, in my experience, it makes sense to stop the locos' diesels....
Its sloppiness to keep them idling..


At Potomac Yards....( before being closed in 1990)
It had been the practice to shutdown standing ConRail locos, and others,
but earlier instructions from B&O  and C&O, to keep their locos running...
because of leakers, dead batteries, etc..

When CSX had a VP that pushed for a program, years ago, to shut-down 
ALL parked dismals, a lot of folks questioned the need to do it, and also concerns
about 'water leaks' into the engine cylinders.  

The CSX VP's comment was to "FIX the leakers, damn-it" , but don't keep all the
RRs engines idling ---- when only a few might be leakers..
And, of course, before re-starting, we opened every cylinder's 'test cocks' before 
'rolling the engines over'..  ( you have to go back, and re-tighten the test cocks, after 
the engine blocks get warmed-up & re-heated...).

At Potomac Yards, there was a BOD Mtg every 90-days, with top representatives 
of the 'tenant lines' attending. ... CSX, ConRail, RF&P, & SOU,

Before one of those, in the eariy AM, the CSX VP stormed into our locomotive shop,
one visit,---- at the start of his "shut-them-down" program.  
So, we complied.

The 'real' reason for the Quarterly meetrings, was the post-Meeting golf games, sponsored by PY,
at varoius local courses in the 'D.C.-area'.   Both the RR reps & occasional Union officers ( out of DC),
and local municipal politicos were invited to the "PY golf-outings"...... all catered & reserved, ahead of time...

Meanwhile, back at the pit tracks....
The leakers were invariably the early mfd. EMDs.
( EMDs subsequently made internal changes to the block designs, etc...)

Alcos were always tight.  
GEs were more oil-leakers, than water..

When I worked on the D&H, they had been all-Alco on their rosters..
The D&H policy, for decades, was to shut-down any standing locos.
And at places like Whitehall, NY, they kept them inside during the bitter weather.

You'd expect that the cooling system would be leak-proof, like in your cars, ----, but ,larger
systems can bring more problems account of "wide swings" in temperature ranges.
The constant expansion/contraction cycles can lead to leaks at joints....especially if sealing rings
or gaskets are used.  Over time ( years) leaks developed.   Most 4-stroke cycle engines were
not known as problem leakers...

Esrkier EMD cylinder liners were fitted with large diameter 'O'- rings around the bottom of each
cylinder-liner.  The 16-liners were inserted into the welded-up engine block, which incorporated 
a 'water shelf' ----- O-rings on the bottom of the liners sealed the top and bottom levels ( forming tye 'shelf').

In service, over time, the seals lost their fkexibikity, became hardened, and leaks into the crankcase 
were common.  Other leaks common to EMD engines, occurred at the upper cylinder & heads---
 could be a problem.

Leaks in the heads became a problem when locos were shut-down for longer than 1-hour....
parts contracted, and water could collect on the piston tops... Upon, restarting, the trapped water
could permanently bend piston rods ---- that damage would not be readily apparent until high horsepower 
demands demands caused massive engine failures.

HOWEVER......
If mechanics mechanics dutifully opened each cykinders 'test-cocks',
before "rolling the engine over", they could readily see if any coolant ( treated water)
was sprayed-out.  Before starting the engine, the mechanic would close each test-cock,
then proceed with the startup process.

( Another caution to be used was pressurizing the lube-oil system prior to cranking.
  The pre-lube process meant connecting a hose from an auxiliary pump-&-oil source
   into the dead engine's oil supply at the 'block'.  The auxiliary source was started,
   and oil dripping from internal engine bearings ensured that no vital bearings were 'dry'-
    -- upon start ups.

   Starting engines without pre-lubing meant many engine revolutions BEFORE beneficial
   oil pressure got to the far-reaches of ALL the lube-oil feeding passages...  
   Setting-up conditions for engine for later failures ---- while under high-load demands...).


So, in my estimation, with closely maintained locos, like in your example,
there should be no reason, mechanically, to have the locos continuously idling...
Its a good habit to get your crews to follow ---- but, ensure to open every one of those 
'test-cocks' before re-starting.....you never know...

For such short 'shut-down' periods, the oil pre-lubing process is not needed.
( But, it might be a 'concern' of a manager, and his judgement & experience
   in these cases, should Rule in each situation ).

But, You're right about fuel saving..
Whether it's a big fleet, or a small fleet..
And if the engines have "problems",--- weak batteries, water leaks, etc....
FIX the problems!

​W.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/03/22 05:42 by wcamp1472.

wcamp1472 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have no genuine knowledge of the operation...
>
> But, in my experience, it makes sense to stop the
> locos' diesels....
> Its sloppiness to keep them idling..
>
Just wondering what comments could be offered by a former Electro Motive employee??
 

ClubCar Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Maybe someone reading this can answer a
> question.  I realize that the Western Maryland
> Scenic Railroad only operates their steam engine
> 2-6-6-2 #1309 on certain days.  However, they
> operate their diesel trains on other days, which
> does make sense for their Polar Express short
> excursions.  However, I do not understand as to
> why they bring this passenger train over from
> their Ridgely Yard to the station in Cumberland
> hours before their trips.  To me, this is a
> terrible waste of diesel fuel since they have two
> diesel engines, one on each end, plus the diesel
> generator power car to support the electricity in
> the passenger cars.  The Western Maryland Scenic
> R.R. is a non-profit organization and they have
> been soliciting for donations over the years.  I
> have contributed money myself; however, it is
> aggravating to see this diesel powered train
> sitting for hours in front of the WM station just
> wasting diesel fuel.  Can anyone with genuine
> knowledge of their operations explain this to me?
> John in White Marsh, Maryland

The gentleman running that outfit now is pretty squared away from what I can tell. I doubt he’s wasting money unnecessarily.

Posted from iPhone

For Polar Express, a lot of on-board servicing, train prep, load-in, etc occurs at the station.

For practical matters in operations overall, you don't want to arrive at the station, shut things down, and then find out your generators don't work, or bathrooms are inoperable, or that your locomotive has an issue only then.

Keeping something running means that if it was working when you left the terminal, you stand a better chance that it will continue to operate if you don't turn it off and try to turn it back on later.