Steam & Excursion > 1225

Anybody know what's up with the 1225 ? Heard superheater issue's this weekend !

It was running a few weeks ago from Mt Pleasant to Cadillac.  Where did you hear that it was lame?

I know , I seen that , It was supposed start it's Polar Express runs the past weekend but they had Diesels instead because of superheater issues!  Just wandered what was going on !

Normally type E superheater units are very reliable.... unless they've 
been subjected to below freezing temps --- with considerable condensate
accumulation inside the units...

Individual units could be repaired, if leaks are at the firebox-end of the units.
They could repair superheater leaks from inside the ( cold) firebox.
Back in the Day, skilled weldors used to weld two welding rods together--- longer reach.

They would slip a length of rubber hose over the welding sticks....
eliminates accidentally hitting the boiler tube interiors, with the extended electrified welding sticks.
The rubber ends burn away at the welding arc.

Starting with high welder-current, they'd burn-away the back section of the affected unit’s return bend,
and expose the crack at the inner return-bend.  

With lowered welding current,
they could close up the crack, from the inside. Then, they'd build-up and close-off the 'access hole' they had created, earlier.

It saved the roundhouse guys a lot of work by not having to remove most of the interior "front-end" draft appliances, netting, baffles, etc., and maybe the petticoat pipe at the base of the smokestack..... just to get out the unit to repair the crack..at the shop’s repair bench.

Its hard in today's world to find excellent weldors, with steam loco experience.

So far, we don't have any facts about the 1225's operational status.
For some reason many folks don't want to disclose the facts when their steam locos are held out-of-service.  

Leaky superheater units can be
common experience.
The leaking steam greatly reduces the drafting-vacuum at the ‘stack when running down the rails.
It’s almost impossible to fire the loco, when the draft is destroyed.
 It only takes a little steam leak to ruin the loco's draft.... draft is the oxygen supply
to the burning carbon... No oxygen, No heat!  
Adding more coal don't help!

Hey, causing problems is what steamers do!


​W.




 



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 11/24/24 23:37 by wcamp1472.

Thanks Wes ! Very much appreciated!

The enclosure/box that terminates the bundles was the invention of Dr. Frankenstein, it either
seals or it doesn't, the bolts holding the thing toether are obtained via an act of god. Might be
nothing wrong with the bundles but they have to be collected and sealed for proper operation.

Out 

For what it's worth, the most important thing with keeping any/all superheater units from developing pin-holes, is making sure that the entire boiler, including the superheater units are blown COMPLETELY dry after any operation. The slightest amount of moister remaining inside the superheater units will quickly cause corrosion from the "hungry oxygen" in the moisture, which results in pin-holes in the steal tubes.

Thank You ! Hot water, I enjoy reading your insight on steam operations also!

Posted from iPhone

When we winterized 1522, after a final steam up, blow down and a few days for the heat to dry things, we would charge the boiler on air, operate all appliances on air until no more water or moisture would show, including the booster.   Then I would run her back and forth on air until nothing came out of the cylinder cocks.  We blew out the oil lines to the burner, put oil in the dynamo supply line, the booster steam line and the air pump feed.
Pulled a couple of washout plugs and put screens over the openings and said farewell until spring fireup.  We never experienced any freeze (or any other problems with the Type A superheater)  We probably did more than we needed to at winterize time, but I always preferred to overdo rather than  have a mess in spring.
Suspenders and a belt.

https://www.lansingstatejournal.com/story/news/local/community/2024/11/29/pere-marquette-north-pole-express-broken-down-diesel-locomotive/76659273007/

Posted from Android

In my experience, pitted superheater uints were attacked from
the outside --- on engines that had been exposed to the elements
at their display sites.

Although stacks were often covered, the massive volume of air into and out of
the bare grates allowed local atmospheric humidity to vary widely.

The volume inside the boilers, if reasonably kept tight and secure, and stays 
at it’s stored humidity, and does not constantly vary with the weather.

The exposed outer surfaces of the units tends to develop pits, that are worsening,
over time.  Lucky engines that have been preserved inside, and undercover have 
fewer cases of outside, pitting damage.

In operating locos there is much greater propensity for damage due to incomplete 
winter blow-out procedures.   There is a distinct difference to propensity for freeze-up 
damage on locos with type E superheaters, compared to rarity of damage 
experienced on locos equipped with type A superheater elements.

Type A units consist of 1 length of 1" diameter tube, folded 4 times inside 
a single, large diameter flue.  Any condensed water gets moved along by 
the flow of compressed air, during the blow-out process.

Type E units are constructed with two paths of flow, each path occupying 2 bolier 
'flues'.   There are 4 flues for each superheater unit. To save space at the cast-iron
header --- where the units are attached,  each supply and return pipe is split into 2 
separate  paths.  Each path occupies 2 flues, and the units are divided into 2 paths 
of piping, one path using two trips to the "hot-end".

There uints are split under the superheater header casting, and are also, re-joined
into one path, at the superheater header.  The split joint divides into two flues, and any 
accumulated condensed water is blown towards the cylinders.  Each path uses two flues,
one over the other.  Any water being blown out must make a vertical trip to get out the header,

The separated paths are reunited, and there are two individual units joined together,
the upper path and a lower path --- water being blown out during the pre-winter 
protection session,  faces a flow and gravity problem: there is a vertical path to the 
header, and water flowing to the header CAN simply be moved to the path of 
least resistance:  into the lower path, rather than only one way-out, as in the "A"
units.  Water being heavy will always take the lower path, with the same pressure.

It takes multiple cycles of high-pressure, & high numbers of attempts to completely 
blow-out type E units.  Water, being heavy, will ALWAYS take the path of least 
resistance.... so, it takes greater air pressure to get the water up into the header,
and out the stack, compared to just flowing into the lower pass of the stacked paths,
one on top of the other.

Also, remember to operate the power reverse, through several complete
cycles: full-forward and full reverse.....in order to provide full port-openings at
the spool valves at each piston, left and right.
Make sure all drivers are chocked, front & rear .... don't get surprised if the engine 
moves down the tracks.

Another complication is that the size of the pipes leading the header are
the same diameter— so you cannot get the same volume of flow: two pipes cannot
handle the flow of 4-pipes, at the same velocity. So, blow-out velocity is drastically
reduced at the header… allowing the accumulated water —being moved—
simply gets moved into the lower tubing of the 4-passes, and lays there… gravity wins.
4 pipes into 2 pipes, all of the same diameters, 2 pipes cannot handle the same
flow-rates.   Even at higher boiler blow-out pressures, physics wins every time.

I believe that 1225 was built with type E units.  If so, I'm not surprised at their 
current circumstance.

It was always a common problem back in the steam days, and towards the end of steam 
loco construction many RRs specified that locos be built using Type A uints, and 
NOT type E-units.  Converting from type E back to Type A units, requires two, new,
re-configured flue-sheets per boiler,  since type A units have fewer superheater units,
and different hole configurations. Conversion to type A units gets very expensive and
a lot of labor.

I think you'll find that some UP 4000s, originally fitted with type E units,were converted to
type A units during their service life...and maybe the 4000s built at a later order,
were built equipped with type A units.  You can check me on that...

Thanks for your attention.

​W.

( not proofed, yet)

 



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 12/01/24 06:20 by wcamp1472.