Steam & Excursion > Group Gets Grant to Restore Alco S2

 The Railroad & Industrial Preservation Society has received a $10,000 grant from Norfolk Southern that will be used for the restoration of the last intact diesel from the Lehigh & New England Railroad.
The restoration is underway in Topton, Pennsylvania, on the Allentown & Aurburn Railroad.
The project involves rebuilding the traction motors of Alco S2 No. 611, built in September 1948 and operated by the L&NE until the railroad shut down in 1961.
The society is seeking to restore the 611 to its as-built condition to serve as an interpretive artifact for special occasions and community events. From the akronrrblog
 

Traction motors are all that needs restoring?

Typically, applying reconditioned traction motors are your best bet.
Better have folks who're good at this highly technical 
part of the process.... rebuilding traction motors.

If you expect to run it, you're looking at an expensive enterprise.
Let a restored loco sit-around for 6 months, and all your hard work
will have been compromised by evils of humidity and oxidation.
When operated, traction motors and generators become subject to
the protections of "Ground Relay' shut-downs.  The true source of the
protective action, can take days to locate & correct.

Motors and generators get beneficially dried-out when used for hours 
of weighted loading and operations.  Sitting around, the coils, even with
todays better insulation coatings, still get contaminated with humidity
and subtle moisture penetration.

Motors that have sat unused for decades, are always trouble 
when they've tried to be put back to work.  Trade-in old, apply fresh ---
- 'new' or 'reconditioned'.

Older copper windings, insulated by old type varnish, from that long-ago, 
are going to ALWAYS be trouble.  The motors are corroded deep inside,
and are impossible to 'recover'.

Same challenges for the coils in the Main and Auxiliary Generators.
Every electrical relay will have to be fitted with replacement coils and contacts.
There's the HD, 'power relays',  called "contactors",  and lower amperage control,
"logic relays".... all with open copper contacts.... copper oxidizes very rapidly.

Even while you're doing the restoration, oxidation is increasing, month by month.
You will have better luck getting the prime-mover reconditioned, and running, first.

You can get the engine operational,  and when new electrical systems are ready,
you're ready to keep stuff dried-out and functional.   If you start with reconditioning 
the electrical system,  it's parts will become oxidized, while you're tearing-apart 
the engine and getting it running...  That year of sitting around, while rebuilding the
engine, has now oxidized all your nice, fresh electrical contacts and relays..

But, once restored, you gotta keep it running regularly, and it's best to be moving
cars with it.   Sitting around, indoors or outside, very quickly oxidizes the relay
contacts and there is no way, if you haven't kept them operating, to restore their 
oxidized and contaminated contacts.   

Lotsa' luck trying to get an Alco back to operation ..... its a very expensive 
undertaking.  Keeping it running will be the bigger challenge.

Been there, got the torn Tee Shirts, and the mashed fingers.
Typically, with projects like this, early enthusiasm has folks taking things apart,
in a scattered process, loosing parts, getting weary and discouraged,
and soon, you've got the engine in pieces, and workers have all moved-on
to other projects, at other operations, with better outcomes, quicker.

​W.
 



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/11/25 14:16 by wcamp1472.

So what happens to UP's stored SD-70M's that sit around for months to years?  Are their traction motors and generators ruined by humidity and oxidation?

Very high probability, that's so.
Ruined?  
Not so such.... Moisture penetration, very high probability.

When returned to service, you'll  have a period of spurious problems,
until the stored units become 'dried-out' & more reliable.  
Spends lots of troubleshooting labor-hours.

Several thousand miles, before the bugs are all gone.

​W.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/12/25 06:36 by wcamp1472.

I've had considerable experience over many years in storing and unstoring locomotives in the Northeast, Colorado and Alaska from periods of 6-8 months and going into years. The last one being just shy of ten years the best I can figure out.

From my experience:

The drier the climate and better the locomotive was prepared for storage the better. Proper and complete draining, stack securely covered, batteries stowed or disconnected and filled, engine covers like coffin lids closed and secure, cabs secured, air reservoirs drained and drain cocks left in open position, etc

Almost never, and maybe never ...  have I reactivated a locomotive stored for over 6 months that there wasn't some issue of some sort. Some minor and some .... well I still shake my head.

Traction motors can be a mixed bag, especially the older ones and DC. Again, making sure all covers are on helps and the locomotive is not sitting in a swamp or getting runoff from a nearby building helps. Sometimes not much problem, other times likely they will throw a ground relay when worked hard. Same with main generators. Always check the brushes, brush holders and commutators and address as needed.

Engine issues may be stuck rings or water damage in the cylinders, seized engine that will not bar over, damaged turbo, frozen rack.

The worst thing is intermittently starting an engine and not working it. Almost for sure there will be trouble somewhere down the road. 

And don't forget to pre-lube a locomotive that has sat dead for a while. You can do catastrophic damage to it if you don't.

Just my experience over 35 years, your mileage may vary.



 

Photo from Dale E. Coyote May 11th, 2024.  They did paint a bit of black and white stripes on the end as a harbinger of things to come.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/12/25 12:59 by ecoyote.

---

Another view from the other end.  Thought that maybe somebody would like to see what exactly is being discussed?  Photo from Dale E. Coyote May 11th, 2024. 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/12/25 12:59 by ecoyote.

---

Thank you, Train1275, for reminding me about pre-lubing a loco that has 
sat unused,  after a couple of days.

Pre-Lubing involves using a powered oil connected at a 'pre-lube' port at the 
engine block.  Pressured oil here feeds passages leading to the crankshaft 
main and rod bearings.  There are also passages leading to the top-deck cam
shafts and cam tappets.   You will also find lube lines feeding the bearings of 
a turbocharger, if equipped.

You want to go to the extreme, far end points to 
observe the free flow of pre-lube oil from ALL
the bearing areas  ---- at the farthest distance from
the  pre-lube connection. 

Check also that oil is dripping from each main bearing,
into the crankcase.  Also with the valve covers opened ,
you want to see fresh oil dripping at every camshaft bearing
on the entire length of each camshaft.

This step is so crucial to protecting 
the crankshaft and camshaft bearings.

If you remember, diesels are "compression-ignition" 
engines; thus, you can expect very high pressure at 
each piston connecting rod.  

The highest compression pressures occur near the very top of
the compression cycle.... the air is compressed so much,
that it's pressure causes ignition temperatures at the very top
of each power stroke.  Compression temperatures, to cause ignition
are 1300F to 1500F.  But, slow cranking speeds allow the rapid 
heat-dissipation, if engine cranking RPMs are too low.
A slow-cranking engine rarely gets compression pressures 
above 600 to 800 F.  

If there are oil-flow problems at a conn-rod bearing, or a 
main bearing, you must resolve and cure whatever problem 
obstructed the free-flow of pre-lube oil.  Again, you want to observe 
the speed of the cranking RPMs, while doing the 'pre-lube' oil-flows 
inspection.

in climates where winter temps get low, the dead diesel is best 
brought inside, for a week or so, to get the high cranking RPMs.
She'll never "light-off", if the engine block is stone-cold.

You cannot safely just jump on a diesel, start it, and take-off....
if it has been sitting 36 hours, or longer.
If you score the crankshaft bearings, because of ignorance,
or impatience---- you have ruined any further use of that loco,
with the scored, or seized main or crank bearing...

​W.


 



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/25 06:34 by wcamp1472.

I will never understand why no locomotive's were built with a pre lube system from the factory, whereas every single marine and industrial has them.  

sixaxlecentury Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I will never understand why no locomotive's were
> built with a pre lube system from the factory,
> whereas every single marine and industrial has
> them.  

Pre-lube systems were available from EMD as an extra-cost option. All a customer had to do was request a price at the time of details settlement. I can't ever remember any class 1 railroads requesting pre-lube systems.

Back when the majority of locomotives still  used were ordered. You never shut down a locomotive. They were started in a shop ran for 92 days before being shut down for the 92 day then fired up for another 92 days. 

train1275 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Traction motors can be a mixed bag, especially the older ones and DC. Again, making sure all covers
> are on helps and the locomotive is not sitting in a swamp or getting runoff from a nearby building
> helps. Sometimes not much problem, other times likely they will throw a ground relay when worked
> hard.  Same with main generators.  Always check the brushes, brush holders and commutators and address
> as needed.

With regard to traction motors, a pal of mine in the industry would say nothing but nice things about Irwin Car and Equipment's traction motor service.  They remanufacture generators, traction motors, and other part to OEM specs, to include things like rewinding armatures.

Their site is right next to the old PRR mainline in Irwin, Pennsylvania.

YES...

if you're going to rebuild an old unit, and you want it as a reliable
running engine; then, yes, get remanufactured things like traction motors,
generators, exciters , etc. also, replace the traction motor power wiring from 
the electrical cabinet to the trucks.

Fresh electrical relays are a must ---- or you'll spend months, years 
fighting intermittent. 'ground relay' operation, and related power cut-off.

Steamers can sit around for years, if preserved, and be fired-up in a day
or two..... diesel operating problems begin after sitting, dead, for 6-weeks....or more.  
Plus, in winter, the starting batteries freeze-up and burst..

They'd better be prepared for proper, heated, storage facilities....
once they've got their loco runable.

​W.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/25/25 22:33 by wcamp1472.

When our society visited the Mad River museum at Bellevue, Ohio,  for an annual convention and to see the Wabash F7,  the boss told us what it took to cosmetically restore the engine. One of the things he stressed was that the heat from running a loco keeps it dry. But when it just sits outside without running, water and moisture is like a cancer even on a well painted, steel, car-body. They put a lot of work into that unit. The same applies to other rolling stock.

Mad River got the colors correct.  From a distance the silver/white looks white, but when you get closer, it looks silver. One of our members consulted with them and provided the paint codes, etc. from Wabash diagrams. He insisted almost to a fault that they they get it right. It isn't always that folks restoring rolling stock listen. 

And if you are a visitor, you can actually watch and photograph NS & W&LE trains from the cab!. It's a great organization. I would rank them up there with the Monticello Group. We had a great time.

Victor Baird