Steam & Excursion > Steam Files - PRR #9

PRR T1
 
 
There is so much that can be said about a T1, and so much has been said both in praise and profanity. 
 
The design was the brainchild of Baldwin Locomotive Works brilliant designer Ralph Paine Johnson, a Cornell University Graduate of 1915 who was appointed Chief Engineer at the works in 1939.
 
Johnson believed that there were limitations and inefficiencies related to bigger power such as Northerns because of the reciprocating and rotating masses and their associated large piston thrust forces and steam distribution flow. He set out with the concept of a non-articulated locomotive breaking up the masses into four instead of two cylinders; a duplex drive.
 
Baldwin tried to sell the idea, but railroads were not receptive. This effort eventually led to putting out sales teams to drum up interest with a follow up to build a demonstrator. Designer Otto Kuhler was retained to come up with some artwork to help the promotion. Finally Pennsy bit on the idea and placed an order for two locomotives, but ones differing to what Baldwin originally had in mind. One of the reasons for the order, no doubt was due to John F. Deasy.
 
Deasy, who started as a telegraph operator in 1901, was promoted to the position of V.P. Operations on October 16, 1933 at a salary of $50,000. After Martin W. Clement took the reins as President in 1935, he and Deasy worked closely together in making the most out of the mighty PRR. Deasy had several “axioms of railroad economics” which were:

1. Freight cars should be loaded as heavily as possible
2. Place as many cars as possible on one train
3. Run as few trains as possible

 
Perhaps Hunter Harrison and PSR is not a new concept.
 
In any case, he took a dim view of double-heading K4s Pacifics on the big name trains and set out to do something about it. The PRR was almost two different railroads, the electrified Eastern operations, and then the rest of the system. On the electrified lines the GG1 was proving to be a perfect locomotive. Now only if they had an equivalent steam locomotive.
 
The design criteria was for it to handle an 11 car train of 80 tons per car at 100 mph on level track with a maximum axle loading of 67, 500 pounds. PRR had gotten behind the curve on motive power development vs. train sizes and weights and increased speeds during the decade of the 1930’s. This philosophy stemmed from Thomas N. Ely who was Chief of Motive Power from 1893 to 1911, and his successors. Ely said, “We think that every pair of drivers adds complications of machinery and friction”. By the late 1930’s Pennsy’s premier passenger power were the pre-war design K4’s which had proven too light for the modern needs making complications on the financial statements that were unacceptable to remain as status quo.
 
PRR’s mechanical and operating people met with Baldwin, Alco and Lima in order to find the ultimate locomotive. An initial design of duplex-drive produced “The Big Engine”, S1 6-4-4-6 #6100. That’s another story, and its downfall was that it was really too big. Eventually the concept of a 4-4-4-4 was decided on and PRR teamed up with Baldwin for an order of two. Baldwin and PRR had a disagreement as Baldwin proposed traditional Walschaerts gear, and PRR, who had just applied Franklin Oscillating Cam gear (Type A) on K4s 5399, was of another mind. Baldwin felt with four cylinders the problems of steam flow were largely resolved, and that the design was radical enough. PRR being the customer won out. Indeed the poppet valve application on the 5399 made it a K4 on steroids with a 44% increase of drawbar horsepower at 80mph and 54% increase at 90 mph. The little Pacific was playing in a league way over her head and PRR was suitably impressed, especially the traditional motive power guys of making more out of a tried and true standard design. The 5399 would go on to get more improvements through the 1940’s making it a real Super Pacific, but no matter how much they beefed up the K4s’s, they were not the answer to the current problems, much less the future of PRR’s long term passenger locomotive needs.
 
The two T1’s were built with Pennsy’s choice of the Franklin Type A becoming the “Buck Rogers” and “Flash Gordon” twins instead of Baldwin’s final suggestion to build one PRR’s way and one with standard Walschaerts. The 6110 was released April 22, 1942 and the 6111 on May 21st. Right out of the gate they showed real promise. Vernon L. Smith, later CMO of Belt Railway, was with Franklin Railway Supply, Co. out of Baltimore, a Lima affiliate at the time. Smith was assigned to the twins as field engineer and was impressed. He reported at one time an engineer coming into Crestline had written one of them up for the spring rigging not responding well at 125 mph. So, say what is all the hype about the LNER “Mallard” speed record of 126 mph in a short burst? PRR 6111 was recorded hauling 16 cars over the Fort Wayne Division averaging 102 mph over 69 miles.  Yes, these were real rocket ships. But rocket ships can be high maintenance too.
 
There were considerable issues and higher than expected maintenance costs. The gearboxes were especially troublesome, and repairs to them were difficult. Valves and valve seats were issues also, but easier to remedy. In spite of this, PRR after WWII ordered 50 more, twenty-five to be built at Altoona and 25 at Baldwin. Franklin kept busy troubleshooting. Early in my railroad career I met Harold Crouch who was assigned to Crestline in those days. He recounted that PRR was concerned about valve seat cracking issues and he was sent to Crestline to check it out. Testing locomotives on various trips and he came up with nothing abnormal and no failures. As soon as a locomotive was released from his oversight it would return with valve seat cracking. He’d repair it; go out with it, and no issues until it made a run without him. It was finally determined at speeds of 110 or even 120 mph all was good, but with Harold off the engine and no one supervising, top speeds were estimated to be more than 120 mph. Harold thought maybe even up to 150 mph! Vernon Smith suspected they were running 125 to 130 on a regular basis. Franklin’s advice was just to “SLOW THEM DOWN !”
 
Maintenance was an issue, especially now the new E7 diesels were out and proving extremely reliable. But another factor would haunt the T1. Adhesion. They were reported very slippery by many PRR enginemen. Another problem was they’d get hung up and stall when making a station stop on a grade. C&O encountered that several times when they tested the 5511 and 5539 during September 1946. Considerable coffee was spilled in the diner when trying to get a start, and on September 12th the 5539 had to call for a pusher to get out of the Waynesboro, VA station stop with 13 cars and 1098 tons. C&O was not impressed. Neither was the N&W when they tested 5511 against J class 604. The 5511 lost out to the J in all but the most high-speed applications during tests of August 1948.
 
Thoughts were that maybe the rotary cam (Franklin Type B) was the answer both operationally and for reducing maintenance costs. This was tried on #5500. The 5547 also was rebuilt to standard Walschaerts like Baldwin originally had in mind. Neither version seemed to cure the greater ills of steam vs. diesel. I believe the PRR T1 Trust that is building a new T1 will use the rotary cam. Can anyone confirm that ?  The application of a booster was also suggested by Vernon L. Smith to assist in starting trains that hung up on grades.
 
But alas, the time had come to face reality as the 1949  Annual Report announced PRR was completing the purchase of 820 diesels. The internal combustion onslaught was now in full swing, and all T1’s were out of service by 1952. The old K4’s took back the reins until they too inhaled too much diesel exhaust and succumbed to the scrap line.
 
The PRR’s motive power and development, and the men who ran it are a fascinating study. Sorry this got a little long.
 
The first image shows PRR 6110 as released by Baldwin on April 22, 1942. I don’t know if this was an early color photo, or someone colorized it.
 
Specs: Cylinders (4) 19-3/4 x 26, 80 inch drivers, 300 psi boiler pressure, 65,000 lbs. tractive effort.

Second image is an Otto Kuhler styled Baldwin rendition done up as an Atlantic Coast Line version. None of these were built, including the proposed demonstrator. Raymond Loewy, as he was under contract to PRR, designed the T1's in the famous Shark or Yacht nose styling.
 



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/27/25 08:34 by train1275.

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Fascinating info, especially the speed-related exploits.  Thank you.

-John

Superb posting - The information given is truly comprehensive.
Bob

As I recall. Smith's book says the poppet-valve box could have been put someplace where you could get at it, but for some reason PRR overruled him. Would have been a big help.

Too bad the European style of timing trains didn't make it across the ocean. Even the plausible-enough 69 miles at 102 mph was never documented. Smith was clearly no dope, and he was confident that T1s were doing 125+, but no one ever got around to proving it.

Thanks for sharing this exciting story of the PRR T-1 locos . Imagine seeing one of them roaring by you trackside at 100 + . 



 

timz Wrote:
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> As I recall. Smith's book says the poppet-valve
> box could have been put someplace where you could
> get at it, but for some reason PRR overruled him.
> Would have been a big help.
>
> Too bad the European style of timing trains didn't
> make it across the ocean. Even the
> plausible-enough 69 miles at 102 mph was never
> documented. Smith was clearly no dope, and he was
> confident that T1s were doing 125+, but no one
> ever got around to proving it.

Well, that is not quite true, i.e. "no one ever got around to proving it.". I knew Mr. Smith pretty well (one NEVER referred to him as "Vern"), since the BRC was one of my service customers in the 1980s, and Mr. Smith would call on me for assistance. He knew I also worked on steam (SP 444r9), and once you got him to "open up", he was a welt of knowledge. He once showed me his note books when he was assigned to ride PRR passenger trains between Crestline, Fort Wayne, and Chicago with T-1s as power. Documented speeds of over 130 MPH were common. When the top managers of Franklin Railway Supply finally confronted the PRR Chief Mechanical Officer over the seriously excessive speeds of the T-1s and how such excessive speeds would effect future warranty claims, the PRR finally "slowed down" the T-1s. The eye-witness accounts and note books from Mr. Smith and a few of the other Franklin "riders" were the final straw to the Chief Mechanical Officer!

I totally concur with HotWater. I knew both Harold Crouch and Mr. Smith (yes, he was always Mr. Smith) and neither were prone to exaggeration or drama, and both had a very deep engineering fact focused mindset. 

As Mr. Smith put the information in his book, as well as recounting it to me a number of times, I fully believe that there statements related to speed were solidly based. Dispatcher RTM's would have proven out the 69 miles at 102 mph and any engineering staff that may have been on board. What we do not seem to have is a copy of that RTM or specific scientific data, which I believe is to your point for irrefutable documented for the record type proof. There are probably several reasons for this, but I fully believe that these locomotives were tearing up the railroad (and themselves) at speeds in excess of 125 mph. 



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/27/25 08:33 by train1275.

HotWater Wrote:
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 Documented speeds of over 130 MPH were common.

Just wanted to highlight this.  Given the sources, this seems pretty unimpeachable.

HotWater Wrote:
-------------------------------

> He once showed me his note
> books when he was assigned to ride PRR passenger
> trains between Crestline, Fort Wayne, and Chicago
> with T-1s as power. Documented speeds of over 130
> MPH were common.

In his book, he doesn't mention being aboard at 130.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZXwyYLTiUfeNfxS1LzIjq3Lp58eF6CSq/view?usp=sharing

His job was to find out how fast the T1s were running;
he wasn't interested in proving it to the world  So he
didn't need documentation, and presumably he didn't
work hard to get it. One of his coworkers told him he
had ridden at 130 and that was good enough for him.

In the US, fans think "documentation" means "So-and-so
said it, and everyone knows we can trust him." In Europe,
"documentation" means "Here are enough figures that you
don't need to trust anyone." That's the style that didn't
cross the Atlantic.

There is no such thing as “too long” on this forum. Thank you for your well written history of the PRR T1.

As a child, I had a neighbor who had worked as a PRR fireman. He told me and my friends many a story about the T1. Your post proves out his claims. Thank you!!

Mark V.
The Fort in Indiana

Posted from iPhone

I am surprised that no one has brought up the Crosby article in Trains Magazine.

Do a TO Search, all dates, for "Crosby last chance", for a credible high speed run of a T-1.

"Credible" meaning "not ridiculous". There was a discussion
of that article a while back -- I forget whether the article
said how long the train was. Aside from speedometer
readings, there was little documentation.

timz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Credible" meaning "not ridiculous". There was a
> discussion
> of that article a while back -- I forget whether
> the article
> said how long the train was. Aside from
> speedometer
> readings, there was little documentation.

If I recall, the dispatcher sheets showed an extremely fast run from the OS's.

True -- there wasn't zero documentation.
Don't recall how much there was.

timz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HotWater Wrote:
> -------------------------------
>
> > He once showed me his note
> > books when he was assigned to ride PRR
> passenger
> > trains between Crestline, Fort Wayne, and
> Chicago
> > with T-1s as power. Documented speeds of over
> 130
> > MPH were common.
>
> In his book, he doesn't mention being aboard at
> 130.
>
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZXwyYLTiUfeNfxS1L
> zIjq3Lp58eF6CSq/view?usp=sharing
>
> His job was to find out how fast the T1s were
> running;
> he wasn't interested in proving it to the world 
> So he
> didn't need documentation, and presumably he
> didn't
> work hard to get it. One of his coworkers told him
> he
> had ridden at 130 and that was good enough for
> him.


WRONG! Mr. Smith not only rode in the cab of many PRR T-1s, but also road in the coaches, always using a stop watch to time the mile posts. I have personally seen his various note books, with mile markers and number of seconds per mile.

> In the US, fans think "documentation" means
> "So-and-so
> said it, and everyone knows we can trust him."


Please give it rest! You never met Mr. Smith, and have no idea what the hell your are talking about. Also, for what it's worth, all Mr. Smith's note books and papers are now in the hands of the T-1 Trust.


In
> Europe,
> "documentation" means "Here are enough figures
> that you
> don't need to trust anyone." That's the style that
> didn't
> cross the Atlantic.

HotWater Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> books and papers are now in the hands of the T-1
> Trust.

Thanks, I was going to ask that.  I'm glad they're preserved, as they undoubtedly make for some interesting reading.

I also learned for the first time in this thread that Harold Crouch worked on T1s.  I met him in passing years ago through my live steam club, and I understood him to have been a New York Central man.  (His live steam engine was a 1.5" scale NYC Pacific.)  Rumor was his hearing loss was a direct result of riding in a "box" mounted on the pilot of a NYC Hudson (or maybe Niagra?) at speed.

There was an article in Trains Magazine decades ago titled The Case of the American Locomotive, and in that article the author claimed to have seen a locomotive report on an arriving T-1 at Crestline, Ohio on which the engineer had noted, "Excess play in the trailing truck at 126 mph."
—Mac

Reading this sensational thread about the inception of PRR's speedy 4-4-4-4's made me want to include my copy photos of a beautiful photograph displayed on the wall of Amtrak's Metropolitan Lounge in Chicago's Union Station.  This appears to be #6110 at BLW Eddystone (?) on the same date as your first fine photo.  Perhaps some of the men standing in front of the locomotive could be identified?

Thank you for this interesting thread full of good information!

FiveString
 

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Wonder how hard it was to get the two sets matchingly rods-down.

I just noticed the difference between the valve "gears"
on lead and trailing engines -- see how one "union link"
(for lack of a better word) goes forward and one goes back?
 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/27/25 16:33 by timz.

JJJ had a huge photo of the T-1, in color, on the wall in his basement.  I can't remember if it was the version with people in the foreground.

Did Vernon Smith's notebooks survive him?