Steam & Excursion > Steam Files - D&RGW #3

D&RGW Class M-64
4-8-4
Baldwin 1929
 
In 1923, the Rio Grande in their quest for updating their passenger power started with the 1500 series 4-8-2’s which were quickly replaced with the larger and higher drivered 3 cylinder 1600’s in 1926. These locomotives didn’t work out so well either, so in 1929 the 70-inch driver two cylinder M-64 class 4-8-4’s arrived from Baldwin. These seemed to fit the bill for the time being and a total of 14 were acquired.
 
But there seems to have been quite a bit of drama about the whole deal. The story gets a little fuzzy right off as the initial order for ten apparently was supposed to be built by Alco. Alco at the time, as the story goes, was overbooked and subbed them out to Baldwin. This was an issue with Rio Grande and they refused to take delivery until Alco made the deal to lease them for five years to see how well they liked them. A subsequent order for the final four later that year, also built by Baldwin, fell under the same agreement. DRGW as it turned out liked them very much and eventually purchased them outright. I am not sure how much of this story is true and how much is simplified folklore. It would be very interesting the see any legal and contractual paperwork between Alco, Baldwin and Rio Grande to really sort it out.
 
Another story was that Rio Grande had doubts about the locomotives ability to handle the trains as the low speed tractive effort of the 4-8-4’s was less than the big 1600’s, so they were initially acquired on a lease basis. Does anyone have anything definitive or from official records?
 
Another bit of a mystery is that the 1700’s have been recorded as being virtual duplicates of the DL&W’s twenty Alco built Q-2 class 4-8-4’s (1601 – 1620) of 1929 vintage. The DL&W was my “home road” of which of course I’m very fond of their steam power. Perhaps that is why I also have such an affinity to the Rio Grande’s 1700’s. But, looking at the specs, I can’t quite see how the two are virtually duplicates. Both had 70 inch drivers and Walschaerts valve gear, with nominal engine weight of 418,000 pounds, but DL&W’s cylinders were 28” x 32” and DRGW’s were 27” x 30”. DL&W’s tractive effort was 71,590 with a factor of adhesion of 3.66 and DRGW’s was 63,700 lbs. with an FA of 4.16. Grate areas and total heating surface also varied. Perhaps someone can clarify that claim.
 
In any case, these locomotives did prove themselves and were popular with the operating crews, the mechanical department and the engineering department, as they were not as destructive on the track as the 1500’s and 1600’s had been. In my eye they are good looking locomotives and they held up well. When delivered, and up to some point about the time of WWII, the boiler jacketing was painted a dark green. Apparently deeper than Southern’s Virginian Green, but lighter than PRR’s Brunswick Green. Or so I am led to believe. Do color images exist? I can’t think I’ve ever seen a painting either. Perhaps Howard Fogg did one ? One more interesting thing to note is that Rio Grande did not call these locomotives Northerns, but Westerns. Also in their class nomenclature, they were “M” class like the Mountains.
 
In 1938 the Rio Grande upped the ante in passenger power by purchasing five bigger Baldwin 4-8-4’s, the 1800’s. So 1700’s were cascaded into secondary roles and worked helper service on the Moffat Route out of Denver. They lasted into the 1950’s before being sold off for scrap.
 
Anyone with clarifications, corrections or comments please chime in. As I’ve said before, I’m not a modeler, but I think one of these as built with the green boiler jacket would look nice in a case over the mantle.

1. D&RGW 1700 - no info

2. D&RGW 1703 - credited to Gerald M. Best, no other information.

3. D&RGW 1703 seen again near Rollinsville, CO, no date or photographer info

All have the older style lettering.
 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/30/25 05:48 by train1275.

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4. 1707 - no info

5. 1707 again, no info, note the new style lettering on the tender. Pueblo, CO

6. 1708 - no info, Pueblo



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/31/25 04:07 by train1275.

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7. D&RGW 1713 at Colorado Springs on August 23, 1940 wears the new speed lettering. Photographer unknown.

Specs:

Road Numbers: 1700 - 1713
Cylinders: 27" x 30"
Driver Diamter: 70 inch
Boiler Pressure: 240 psi
Tractive Effort: 63,700

8. A builders photo of DL&W 1603, one of the Q2 class built by Alco in 1929, said to be the pattern for the Rio Grande M-64 class.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 07/30/25 07:29 by train1275.

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Appreciated you post on D&RGW Steam Files #3.  Regarding 1. D&RGW 1700 I'm guessing is the location of Minturn, Colorado, on the Tennessee Pass line.


> Anyone with clarifications, corrections or
> comments please chime in. As I’ve said before,
> I’m not a modeler, but I think one of these as
> built with the green boiler jacket would look nice
> in a case over the mantle.
>
> 1. D&RGW 1700 - no info
>
 

According to the couple of now-departed old D&RGW heads I have talked to, the 1700's were the most beloved power the Rio Grande owned.  They could do it all, wheel varnish at speed and slug it out with tonnage when necessary.  As built the engines had a variable valve lead set up that increased valve lead as the valve gear was hooked up toward center, to give them a bit more "punch" at higher speeds.  You can see an extra bell-crank above and behind the cylinders that was part of this mechanism.  In later years, this was removed.

According to a D&RGW Standard Practice from 1939, all D&RGW steam locomotives had thier jackets painted olive green.  Unless washed on a nearly daily basis (which the Rio Grande sadly did NOT do), it quickly turned to basic weathered black.

Earl,
Thanks for the comments.

Doug

5 and 6 are in Pueblo down in the depot yards.

Thanks for the locations of photos 5 & 6.

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