Steam & Excursion > Steam Files - DL&W #9

DL&W 1600 Series
4-8-4 Poconos
 
The freight and dual service 1600’s, along with the 1151 series passenger Hudsons were the most highly developed steam power on the Lackawanna. After the success with the 1500 series passenger Poconos, the railroad moved ahead with the concept of a freight 4-8-4 (Pocono) in order to trim operating costs and gain efficiency in operations. The decision was well timed in 1929, right on the eve of the depression. These new engines could pull more, run faster and required less shop time than the older smaller engines, which also meant the ability to trim down labor and operating expenses. As the depression hit, that cost cutting became critical, and most all employes on the DL&W took pay cuts, management and union. The DL&W was also in a race against the New York Central, Erie and Lehigh Valley for the ever more important fast freight business that was critical to cutting their dependence on the declining coal traffic that had been the bread of their revenues since they were founded in 1853. The butter of those revenues was as stated, dairy products, mainly fluid milk. The Western connections at Buffalo were the favored Nickel Plate, but many carloads were also interchanged with the Pere Marquette, Michigan Central, Grand Trunk, Wabash and the Lake Shore of the New York Central.
 
There were three orders, with the first twenty in 1929 numbered 1601 – 1620.  A second batch of ten came in 1932, numbered 1621 – 1630, right in the depths of the depression, but so successful and critical were they to the company that the Board of Managers readily approved the capital expenditure. The first 30, which came from Alco’s Schenectady plant cost $85,000 each. The third order, consisting of 20 (1631 – 1650), also built in Schenectady, came in 1934 with a new price tag of $106,000 each. It was money well spent.
 
First, let’s take a look at the 1929 order which came with 28” x 32” cylinders, 70 inch drivers, 235 lbs. of steam pressure and developed 71,600 lbs. of tractive effort. They had Walschaerts valve gear, air horns, and as built, no feed water heaters. Weight on drivers was 262,000 pounds, Total Engine Weight; 418,000 lbs., and tenders that carried 22 tons of bituminous coal and 15,000 gallons of water.
 
During WWII these locomotives were rebuilt with Worthington SA feed water heaters, which drastically altered their appearance. The headlight had to be moved to the top of the smoke box, which was extended outward five inches to accommodate the feed water heater, and the bell moved behind the stack, off center to the left side. A distinguishing feature as built was that due to the cylinder design, the dry pipe was not visible.
 
Road Numbers 1601 - 1620
 
Image 1 – An unidentified 1600 on a freight at Groveland, NY way out towards Buffalo. It looks like a 1932 model.  The box under the smoke box is the automatic train control equipment

Image 2 – Three-unit FT diesel 603 leads a 1600 at an unidentified location. There should be enough power to move this freight at a good speed anywhere on the Lackawanna.
 
Image 3 - DL&W 1604 after the Worthington SA feed water heater was installed along with a Boxpok main driver. This locomotive was scrapped in 1951. 
 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/20/25 05:55 by train1275.

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Image 4 - Continuing with the 1929 order is the 1605 near Lowman, NY which is between Binghamton and Elmira. The 1605 also met the torch in 1951. *Note- as I posted this image tagged as the 1605, I notice it more looks to be a locomotive from the 1934 order. 
 
Image 5 - DL&W 1610 is wearing the new Worthington SA type feed water heater look as it is in harness with the 1630 working hard up the westbound grade to Mount Pocono, PA during April of 1946. W.R. Osborne is credited with this photo, and what a wonderful image it is in all of its’ smoke, steam and glory. I used to think how ugly these rebuilt locomotives were, but over the years they have grown on me and present a very powerful image as seen here. It’s just not that classic look most of us find so attractive and associate with Lackawanna power. 
 
1932 Order, Road Numbers 1621 – 1630
 
This order shared many of the same specifications with the 1929 order with a few exceptions. First of all, they were built with Worthington feed water heaters with the pilot and pilot beam extended out five inches to accommodate the classic look with the headlight centered on the front of the smoke box. Secondly, the weight on drivers was increased to 271,000 lbs. with total engine weight of 429,000 lbs.
 
Image 6 – DL&W 1621, Alco builders photo 1932
 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/20/25 06:18 by train1275.

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Moving on to the 1934 order, Road Numbers 1631 – 1650
 
These were the ultimate steam locomotives on the roster, dual service with 74-inch Boxpok drivers, and excelling in both services. They carried 274,000 lbs. on their drivers with a total engine weight of 447,000 lbs. generating a tractive effort of 72,000 lbs. Initially the boiler pressure was set at 250 lbs., but at a factor of adhesion of 3.8 they were slippery. Three of the class were converted from 28” x 32” cylinders to 27” x 32”; Road Numbers 1637, 1645 and 1646. There are some records that suggest by 1948 that the others in the class had their boiler pressure reduced from 250 to 230 lbs. reducing tractive effort to 66, 270 lbs. and increasing the factor of adhesion to 4.1.  The tenders of the 1934 locomotives were enlarged from the previous two classes to hold 26 tons of coal and 16,000 gallons of water. All the 1600’s were built equipped with air horns to supplement their steam whistles. Engines 1631 to 1648 had the Worthington feed water heaters as applied by Alco when built at Schenectady, but for some long lost reason the 1649 and 1650 had Elesco Exhaust Steam Injectors.
 
These were spectacular locomotives and covered mainline assignments all across the system from Hoboken to Buffalo. Later in life some showed up on the Syracuse Branch, but the reality was they were too big to cascade down into lesser assignments. Scrapping started in 1951, and all were gone by 1953. It’s too bad one wasn’t saved. As far as DL&W was concerned, a 1631 series Pocono could easily outperform a three-unit EMD diesel.
 
Image 7 –DL&W 1631 was the first of the 1934 engines with the 74-inch Boxpok drivers seen brand new in this Alco builders photo.
 
Image 8 – DL&W 1632 in a beautiful color scene is on an eastbound, east of Groveland NY in the 1940’s. The Lackawanna was a first rate railroad with first class engineering and track maintenance. – Photographer unknown, my collection
 
Image 9 – DL&W 1637 is at YO Yard in Binghamton which served the Syracuse and Utica Branches (S&U) and the interchange from D&H’s parallel Bevier Street Yard.   Former DL&W operator Ted Jackson looked at this 1939 image and surmised the locomotive was on an Acme Fast Freight that picked up hot cars off the S&U and the D&H to forward west to Buffalo.  1637 was one of the last to go in 1953. The image is tagged from Bud Laws.
 

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Image 10 – DL&W’s Fast Freight Connections at Buffalo from the July 1, 1935 List of Officers, Agents, Stations, Equipment, Facilities, etc.

Image 11 – DL&W 1647 presents a powerful appearance, but is working a light passenger train at an unknown location. Unknown photographer.  
 
 Image 12 – DL&W 1648, a roster shot that shows the 1930’s Classic “Lackawanna Look”. Photographer unknown
 

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Image 13 – DL&W 1649 is at Secaucus, NJ on March 30, 1936. This locomotive, like sister 1650, was equipped with an Elesco Exhaust Steam Injector instead of the Worthington SA FWH. This photo visually represents all these locomotives were in appearance and performance, the ultimate of steam power on the DL&W. 1649 would hang on until the bitter end in 1953, succumbing to the march of progress and technological development.
 
 

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Nice engines, but I never cared for the "bald face" look and later the design of the sand dome. A matter of what you're used to and like I guess.

Thank you - Another set of superior text and photos.
Bob

What a sound they must have made!! Thanks.

> Image 8 – DL&W 1632 in a beautiful color scene
> is on an eastbound, east of Groveland NY in the
> 1940’s. The Lackawanna was a first rate railroad
> with first class engineering and track
> maintenance. – Photographer unknown, my
> collection

This picture looks like somewhere in the Dansville, NY area, likely ascending the big grade up and over "Dansville Hill"?

Topfuel Wrote:

> This picture looks like somewhere in the
> Dansville, NY area, likely ascending the big grade
> up and over "Dansville Hill"?

Yes, probably somewhere between Groveland and Dansville, eastbound ascending the Dansville Hill.

train1275 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Topfuel Wrote:
>
> > This picture looks like somewhere in the
> > Dansville, NY area, likely ascending the big
> grade
> > up and over "Dansville Hill"?
>
> Yes, probably somewhere between Groveland and
> Dansville, eastbound ascending the Dansville Hill.

Except,,,,,,,,,,,,the locomotive does not appear to be "working hard" judging by how thick and lazily the exhaust/smoke is coming out of the stack. I wonder what was really going on there?

HotWater Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> train1275 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Topfuel Wrote:
> >
> > > This picture looks like somewhere in the
> > > Dansville, NY area, likely ascending the big
> > grade
> > > up and over "Dansville Hill"?
> >
> > Yes, probably somewhere between Groveland and
> > Dansville, eastbound ascending the Dansville
> Hill.
>
> Except,,,,,,,,,,,,the locomotive does not appear
> to be "working hard" judging by how thick and
> lazily the exhaust/smoke is coming out of the
> stack. I wonder what was really going on there?

Yeah, almost looks like he is not even moving. There's more to this than we see I imagine.
Stopped waiting for the pushers to cut in?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/20/25 09:25 by train1275.

It would be unusual to see a higher speed train on color slide film in the 1940s.

Many color images are of stopped or lower speed trains.

Posted from Android

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It would be unusual to see a higher speed train on
> color slide film in the 1940s.
>
> Many color images are of stopped or lower speed
> trains.

My late friend E.T. "tom" Harley shot lots of Kodak color slide film (ASA 10) in the 1940s & 1950s, and most of his NYC color action shots were in Don Ball's color books. The color shots of NYC steam at speed, by Tom are truly unbelievable.

Seeing all those big modern mainline engines with a pair of 11" single-lung air compressors is interesting

HotWater Wrote:
>
> My late friend E.T. "tom" Harley shot lots of
> Kodak color slide film (ASA 10) in the 1940s &
> 1950s, and most of his NYC color action shots were
> in Don Ball's color books. The color shots of NYC
> steam at speed, by Tom are truly unbelievable.

It's great that these photos exist, but was that common in the 1940s?

I'm sure color slide or film processing wasn't cheap and cameras which handled ASA10 and 1/500 weren't widely owned by average hobbyists.

Posted from Android

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HotWater Wrote:
> >
> > My late friend E.T. "tom" Harley shot lots of
> > Kodak color slide film (ASA 10) in the 1940s &
> > 1950s, and most of his NYC color action shots
> were
> > in Don Ball's color books. The color shots of
> NYC
> > steam at speed, by Tom are truly unbelievable.
>
> It's great that these photos exist, but was that
> common in the 1940s?
>
> I'm sure color slide or film processing wasn't
> cheap and cameras which handled ASA10 and 1/500
> weren't widely owned by average hobbyists.

More opinion. You would be surprised the number, although few, of photographers that shot color film and/or transparencies back then. Also, Kodak offered some pretty nice cameras that used Kodachrome 35MM, ASA 10 film.

train1275 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>  
> Image 5 - DL&W 1610 is wearing the new Worthington
> SA type feed water heater look as it is in harness
> with the 1630 working hard up the westbound grade
> to Mount Pocono, PA during April of 1946. W.R.
> Osborne is credited with this photo, and what a
> wonderful image it is in all of its’ smoke,
> steam and glory. I used to think how ugly these
> rebuilt locomotives were, but over the years they
> have grown on me and present a very powerful image
> as seen here. It’s just not that classic look
> most of us find so attractive and associate with
> Lackawanna 


Reminiscent of another handsome looking 4-8-4, the WM Potomacs

WM Potomac 4-8-4

Photo 4 was taken in Lowman, NY by Photographer Joe Boyd a Conductor on the Pennsy from Southport, NY. It is an eastbound.  At the right of the smokebox you can barely see the roof of a house that happens to be my family home. The barn burned in 1955 when I was at the age of 2. Ten years ago built a new house almost on the same location as the barn and tore down the old house. The last trains over this trackage was on August 30, 1959 when the Lackawanna consolidated trackage with the Erie.