Steam & Excursion > Cumbres & Toltec cancellations

C&TS website and Facebook pages say trains cancelled on June 30th and July 1st owing to high fire risk.
Details on the Steam Train Diary at https://svsfilm.com/diary/

What am I overlooking ? I thought the C&TS converted the #489 and #? to burn oil to deal with  fire hazards. 

Contrary to popular belief, oil-fired locomotives do throw sparks, not as many as coal-fired locomotives, but some.  Diesels can throw sparks, too.  So can wheels and brake shoes.  I know that C&TS country quite well and the fire danger this year is extreme--a very dry winter, followed by the normal very dry June.  As of right now, only the northeastern quarter of Colorado has gotten some significant rain in the last 6 weeks.  Everything west and south of that is a tinderbox in Colorado and northern New Mexico.  What few thundershowers that have developed have delivered little rain, but a lot of dry ligntning.  

This is serious.    I was on the C&TS a few years back on the last run  'over the hill' in November with a double-header and final long equipment move to Antonito for end of season.   Because of that, we had quite a line of chasers and drones.

Before we got up to Windy Point, riding the open car, I looked behind us toward Chama, and there was visible smoke.   A couple minutes later, visible flames rising over the brush.   Crew members radios were crackling between the train and the following track patrol.... it looked really bad.

Found out later that the chasing railfans, along with the track patrol, got it under control.   But seeing flames erupt behind you leaves an impression.

This is what happens when Colorado has the driest, warmest winter in recorded history. Some parts of the state only had 2 minor snow storms all winter long and no rain this spring. It is so dry that any spark or lightning strike in the right place will start a huge fire. Fires that begin with a few acres have grown to 12,000 acres before anyone can respond. USFS is currently responding to at least 8 major fires, with new starts every day. Some of these fires are in rugged country and firefighters have to hike in 6 hours just to reach the fire. 3 USFS firefighters have lost their lives, 2 others were seriously injured.
Leadville CO was nearly evacuated yesterday due to a big fire 10 miles SW of the town. Colorado City in the south of the state was evacuated yesterday.
C&TS is doing the smart thing.

Jake

JohnMcIvor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> C&TS website and Facebook pages say trains
> cancelled on June 30th and July 1st owing to high
> fire risk.
> Details on the Steam Train Diary at
> https://svsfilm.com/diary/

UP951West Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What am I overlooking ? I thought the C&TS
> converted the #489 and #? to burn oil to deal
> with  fire hazards. 


The football team cannot continue playing if access to the stadium has been compromised by a fire.

Meanwhile, 110 miles to the west the Durango & Silverton keeps running.

The D&S is managed by railroaders who know the risks and take appropriate action.  The C&TS is managed by government appointed politicians who fear their political future.

they shut down during a rainy period, if people travel from a long ways away you cancel abrubtly it hurts, the operation will get unreliable reputation even if they are doing the right thing.  Need revenue, fire up the fire trucks to follow, those small tanks that D&SNG hauls around wont get much done, they may have a pump to refill from the river something that the CATS cannot do.

Sent YOUR money......
Would you rather have 64 miles of abandoned grade?

Earlk Wrote:
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> Meanwhile, 110 miles to the west the Durango &
> Silverton keeps running.
>
> The D&S is managed by railroaders who know the
> risks and take appropriate action.  The C&TS is
> managed by government appointed politicians who
> fear their political future.

Earl has the most exoerience  of the situation down there, wether it is a jaded opinion idk

the area is so arid every summer pretty much.

My solution rebuild the abandoned section , run it in the median of 550  till it  can regain it's footprint  and let DSNG  run the whole show.

Didn't the Durango & Silverton start / contribute to a massive wildfire in 2018?  The railroad paid $20 million to settle claims that its fire destroyed 54,000 acres.

There's a middle ground between scared "government appointees" and a private company seeking to maximize profits regardless of the risks to others. I suspect both railroads are somewhere between these extremes.

The D&S agreed in the settlement to participate in a program to modify operations when fire risk is elevated and cease operations when conditions are extreme, for example. C&T operates in a different geographic area and is not part of the D&S agreement.

https://www.justice.gov/usao-co/pr/durango-silverton-narrow-gauge-railroad-agrees-pay-damages-2018-fire-and-modify-railroad

To mitigate the D&S i Believe was allowed to trim the forest back  then D&S was chastised for cutting too much wood on their ROW by the USFS,  A guy is slowly chopping it up  some of it in Silverton.  

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Didn't the Durango & Silverton start / contribute
> to a massive wildfire in 2018?  The railroad paid
> $20 million to settle claims that its fire
> destroyed 54,000 acres.
>
> There's a middle ground between scared "government
> appointees" and a private company seeking to
> maximize profits regardless of the risks to
> others. I suspect both railroads are somewhere
> between these extremes.
>
> The D&S agreed in the settlement to participate in
> a program to modify operations when fire risk is
> elevated and cease operations when conditions are
> extreme, for example. C&T operates in a different
> geographic area and is not part of the D&S
> agreement.
>
> https://www.justice.gov/usao-co/pr/durango-silvert
> on-narrow-gauge-railroad-agrees-pay-damages-2018-f
> ire-and-modify-railroad

The C&TSRR has a similar program voluntarily negotiated with the Forest Service and state forestry agencies for fire mitigation and to proactively take action when drought and weather conditions are severe. The purpose is to prevent the federal and state agencies from taking actions to shut the railroad down as occurred in 2002.

As stated the C&TS operates in a different geographic area with no close source of water in the event of a fire incident and generally no road access when away from SH-17. Thus fire prevention is a priority only exceeded by passenger safety.

While it's bad news for potential riders, I think it's the right decision based on the current fire conditions in Colorado.  It's been a bad fire year in Utah, we've had a very similar drought pattern as Colorado this year and I don't see things getting any better in either location as the summer progresses.  There was a fire the other weekend during my son's baseball game, watched the fire trucks race out to it.  Fortunately they were able to knock it down, but it got really close to homes as it burned between two new subdivisions.  Other parts of Utah haven't been so lucky, and I'm hearing the same for fires in Colorado with multiple homes and other buildings destroyed.  And we've already lost 3 firefighters, so anything we can do (such as fireworks bans this weekend) to help save lives and property are worth it in my opinion.

Nathan

Remember DSNG has enough ex-Alaska diesels to run almost a full schedule now.   

Good info, thanks for sharing.  I like that the two railroads are part of the active solution for fire mitigation.

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Good info, thanks for sharing.  I like that the
> two railroads are part of the active solution for
> fire mitigation.

It's not like they have a choice. If they run and cause a fire, for whatever reason, they will be done. 

Somebody should point out how many standing dead, beetle-killed pines and spruces there are along the C&TS. Standing, dead conifers are the scariest environment imaginable for fire suppression. Just ask anybody who witnessed the Yellowstone fire back in the 1980s. 

Yes, this is a decision by those dreaded "government bureaucrats ". Yup, that's why we have bureaucrats. That's why we have a government. 

all of colorado mountains are  full of dead pine beetles, not just that CATS

march_hare Wrote:
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> Somebody should point out how many standing dead,
> beetle-killed pines and spruces there are along
> the C&TS. Standing, dead conifers are the scariest
> environment imaginable for fire suppression. Just
> ask anybody who witnessed the Yellowstone fire
> back in the 1980s. 
>
> Yes, this is a decision by those dreaded
> "government bureaucrats ". Yup, that's why we have
> bureaucrats. That's why we have a government. 


My recollection is most of the forest along the C&TS is national forest land.  How wide a buffer would be needed to provide a safe passage for this vital tourism economic resource?

The state of Alabama says that there is no need to fell already dead, grey trees, but newly dead or infested trees should be felled and smothered to prevent emergence of beetles.  That suggests Alabama isn't concerned about forest fires in their area.

https://forestry.alabama.gov/Pages/Informational/Insects/Southern_Pine_Bark.aspx



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/04/26 10:28 by Lackawanna484.