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Nostalgia & History > SP experiments......part 2


Date: 05/08/06 21:44
SP experiments......part 2
Author: choochoocharlie

Here are a few photos of the first SP double stack car #513300, and the testing of the second incarnation of the double stack cars in a 3 unit set #513301 on SP's Coastline in the late '70s.

1 - The original single car and notice the ladders on both bulkhead ends.
2 - The LAOAF led by SP SD45T-2 #9400 with SD45 #8854 and UP SD40-2 #3505. At the rear of this train is the test equipment and the 3 unit test car. This freight will meet an Eastbound train at Ortega siding in Summerland south of Santa Barbara. (When Ortega was still a real siding.)
3 - SP test car #252 (at this time I believe it was lettered "instrument car"), ACF test car RNDX 144, the 3 unit double stack car #513301 and the train's SP caboose.









Date: 05/08/06 21:51
Re: SP experiments......part 2
Author: choochoocharlie

1 - End of the LAOAF at Santa Claus Lane taken near milepost #379, just west of Cartpinteria, CA.
2 - The American Car and Foundry test car #RNDX 144 ahead of the 3 unit test set.
3 - One section of the 3 unit test set and notice that they didn't include the ladders on the bulkheads of the car.

C.C.Chas.








Date: 05/08/06 22:01
Re: SP experiments......part 2
Author: espeeboy

very cool CHarle! Keep up the great rare SP oddball catch scans...


-Ryan M. Martin aka "espeeboy"
on the ex-WP Oakland Sub MP11.2



Date: 05/08/06 22:13
Re: SP experiments......part 2
Author: tracktime

EXCELLENT stuff! Keep that good stuff coming!

Cheers,
Harry



Date: 05/09/06 08:00
Re: SP experiments......part 2
Author: UPNW2-1083

It's sad to think what an inovative railroad SP was with double stacks, tunnel motors, etc. and to see the skeleton that was left when the UP took over in '96. Anchutz basically gutted the railroad and left it to die in the desert sands.-BMT
Here's a shot of the once proud SP with four brand spanking new T-2's decending Cajon pass in November '74. Photo by Mike Johnson.




Date: 05/09/06 08:25
Re: SP experiments......part 2
Author: WAF

If he intentionally gutted it, why did they spend millions for over 400 new locomotives in the 90s?



Date: 05/09/06 09:27
Re: SP experiments......part 2
Author: Railbaron

UPNW2-1083 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ... Anchutz basically gutted the railroad
> and left it to die in the desert sands.-BMT

I have seen a couple of posts where people have accused Philip Anschutz of "gutting" the SP; can some one give details???

I would argue the SP was "gutted" in the failed SP/ATSF merger attempt. The Southern Pacific wasn't only the railroad but was also pipelines, telecommunications, land, trucking, and many other subsidiaries that had been built from the railroad. When the merger started everything OTHER than the railroad was merged into the Santa Fe while the Southern Pacific Railroad operated basically in a vacuum awaiting approval (which I said from "Day 1" would never happen). The railroad portions of the two companies needed governmental approval while the other subsidiaries could be merged with no such approval. Then when the railroad part of the merger was denied the Southern Pacific was thrown aside to sink or swim on its own without any of the subsidiary companies that had been part of the Southern Pacific Company being a part of the remaining company.

Philip Anschutz came along, bought the SP, and then made an attempt to bring the SP back into health. He extended the reach of the SP into Chicago via two routes, bought hundreds of new state of the art locomotives, and started the double tracking of the Sunset Route that UP is continuing with today. Yes, he eventually "sold out" to UP but I would not say he "gutted" the SP in the process.



Date: 05/09/06 10:06
Re: SP experiments......part 2
Author: WAF

Agree, if ANYONE raided SP's closet, it was the Santa Fe. The only thing Anchutz made money on was the Telecon. And that he did by accessing the property rights of the SP AND DRGW



Date: 05/09/06 12:46
Re: SP experiments......part 2
Author: UPNW2-1083

I agree with everyone above about the Santa Fe starting the raiding of the SP but I can't see any signs of Anchutz doing the railroad any good here in So. Cal. When the UP took over in '96, the trackage in the LA Basin was a shambles, with countless slow orders on the mainlines and all of the branches. Also he sold off so much of their real estate, including Taylor yard and the "bullring". Most of the locomotives that were aquired in the merger were so worn out that the UP crews refused to use them. As for the hundreds of new locomotives he "purchased", I was told by one of our locomotive directors that all of those units were leased and UP ended up paying for them.
I think Anchutz is a very astute and successful business man and investor, which shows by his vast wealth and holding. But all I can see that he did with the SP was patch it up enough so he could sell it to the UP. The bottom line being that this September 11th will mark the 10 year anniversary of the death of the SP.-BMT

P.S. Let the flaming continue, I work for the UP, I'm thick skinned.;)-BMT



Date: 05/09/06 14:05
Re: SP experiments......part 2
Author: WAF

Moyer did more to destroy the SP under Anschutz. It was in bad shape by the time Anschutz got his hands on it. Nature simply took its course on the railroad.



Date: 05/09/06 14:13
Re: SP experiments......part 2
Author: Evan_Werkema

Railbaron Wrote:

> The railroad portions of the two companies needed
> governmental approval while the other subsidiaries
> could be merged with no such approval. Then when
> the railroad part of the merger was denied the
> Southern Pacific was...

...sold to Phil Anschutz. The ICC merger rejection required SFSP to sell one or both railroads, and they sold the SP to Anschutz. There was no prolonged period where SP was set adrift without some big, diversified entity behind them.

> Philip Anschutz came along, bought the SP, and
> then made an attempt to bring the SP back into
> health.

The factors that made the SP "unhealthy" were complex. While failed SPSF merger didn't help matters, even before the merger SP's operating ratio was greater than 1 (that is, they spent more than a dollar trying to make a dollar).

> He extended the reach of the SP into
> Chicago via two routes, bought hundreds of new
> state of the art locomotives, and started the
> double tracking of the Sunset Route that UP is
> continuing with today.

If I remember rightly, the money to "buy" (lease) hundreds of new locomotives came from taking the railroad public with a stock offering in the early-90s. SP also sold locomotives it owned and then leased them back on a "power by the mile" basis. Double tracking the Sunset came partly at the expense of removing double track on Donner Pass. I recall reading that the SP was also selling off property holdings that had remained with railroad following the merger. My impression is that Anschutz didn't sink much of his own money into SP.



Date: 05/09/06 14:21
Re: SP experiments......part 2
Author: WAF

He didn't sink much money into the DRGW when he bought it in 1985 either... junk bonds, an Anschutz trademark. He also sold about 10 percent to NYK? in the early nineties for cash.



Date: 05/11/06 12:50
Re: SP experiments......part 2
Author: ButteStBrakeman

WAF Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Moyer did more to destroy the SP under Anschutz.
> It was in bad shape by the time Anschutz got his
> hands on it. Nature simply took its course on the
> railroad.

Bill.... you said a mouthfull there.


V

SLOCONDR



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