Nostalgia & History > BN-1: Does BNSF Wish They Still Had It?

Do you suppose BNSF wishes that BN-1 hadn't been donated? I believe I read that it was donated to a museum in Illinois, is that correct?

Since they don't have any snazzy power for their business trains, I wonder if they now rue their decision to let it go.

A couple more questions: Did BN-1 have any B-units with it, or was it alone in its last years?

If BNSF requested, do you think the museum would give it back so it could be restored to service?

Are there any B-units that might be able to be paired with it? I know there were some in snow service; Could they be snatched away from the rotaries, and would they be a good match for BN-1?

Here's a thread from a few days ago with a nice photo of BN-1, and it got me thinking about all this (that and the fact that there was a related thread recently that really didn't delve into whether BNSF could (or would want to) get BN-1 back...
http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,1375552

Take care,
-Wes

IIRC the BNSF had some one that was working on a F45 fallen out the side door . So like all RR they made a new rule that eliminated all F 45 and F9 from leading if they had side doors????

Photo 1: BN Ski Special returning from Winter Park, January, 1992 at the Coal Creek Canyon curve.

Photo 2: At Crescent heading to Winter Park, January, 1993. BN-3 ( ex-BN E unit from Metra service) was along for the ride.. literally as it dead at Rocky.

Photo 3: Returning from Winter Park, January, 1994 at Tolland. A very blustery day at Tolland... and COLD!!!

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In addition to the rule about not climbing a ladder to get in the cab the BN 1-2-3 had small 1950's sized fuel tanks. They would have to stop for fuel more times than a Dash-9 does. All in all I'm sure some folks at BNSF may miss these units but just for nostalgia. As for operations they are just too old for BNSF's size operation. Could you imagine a crew member straining their back hoisting a grip into the cab while climbing the ladder to get in the BN-1?

DRGW Wrote:
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> Do you suppose BNSF wishes that BN-1 hadn't been
> donated? I believe I read that it was donated to a
> museum in Illinois, is that correct?

Yes, Donated to Illinois Railway Museum in 1998. In service at IRM since.

> Since they don't have any snazzy power for their
> business trains, I wonder if they now rue their
> decision to let it go.
>
> A couple more questions: Did BN-1 have any B-units
> with it, or was it alone in its last years?

BN-2 is its accompanying B-unit, rebuilt at the same time, donated at the same time. Also at IRM.

> If BNSF requested, do you think the museum would
> give it back so it could be restored to service?

First, let's get something straight: BN-1 and BN-2 do NOT need to be RESTORED to service. Thanks to the work of many dedicated volunteers, they ARE fully operational at IRM (and have been that way since the day they arrived). They are used when needed.

We don't use BN-2 as much as BN-1, as we rarely need the extra HP. BN-1 could use a touch-up on its paint job (planned), and the Museum does not use the 480V engine standby system, as we drain and cap our diesels for the winter, but mechanically they are just fine. IIRC, one of the units is scheduled for a new set of batteries this year.

BNSF has asked the Museum to borrow back the BN-1/BN-2 a couple of times for use and/or display at Galesburg Railroad Days and once for Topeka Railroad Days. We have always done all we can to honor any request fron BN or BNSF to use our equipment. They have been very kind to us over the years.

> Are there any B-units that might be able to be
> paired with it? I know there were some in snow
> service; Could they be snatched away from the
> rotaries, and would they be a good match for
> BN-1?

See above.

Both these units came from snowplow service. While in snowplow service they were fitted with alignment control drawbars, which resulted in the toy-train-like spacing between units and the resulting "phone booths" between units.

> Here's a thread from a few days ago with a nice
> photo of BN-1, and it got me thinking about all
> this (that and the fact that there was a related
> thread recently that really didn't delve into
> whether BNSF could (or would want to) get BN-1
> back...
> http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,
> 1375552

The point was made in a previous thread that the main reason the BNSF retired the BN-1/BN-2 was lack of fuel capacity. The then-current management also wanted to project the most modern,up-to-date image of the company, and 50-year-old F-units don't do that.

If you'd like to see BN-1, BN-2 and BN-3 (ex-WSMTD suburban E9) all in service together, I'd suggest coming to IRM for our annual Diesel Weekend on July 14-15 or Museum Showcase Weekend Sept. 15-16. These are usually the two events when all three are fired up and running.

Check out www.irm.org for our full 2007 schedule.

NZ

ASDE's around the system are probably happy BN-1 and BN-2 are gone.

Aesthetics aside, one motive power veteran told me all parties are better off when the railroad has a policy of assigning current road power to officer specials. The chances of mechanical failure are diminished, and the chances of an on-the-road fix are better if it's motive power that the troops see every day, rather than a "one-off" locomotive that may visit a particular engine terminal once or twice a year. The last thing line supervisors and road foremen want to deal with on passenger specials is motive power problems and an inability to fix them quickly and, um, quietly.

I don't know if that "officially" played a role in getting rid of the executive F's, but that front-line supervisor's perspective certainly made sense to me.

Any chance BN-1 and 2 could get repainted back into their orignal liverarys (be it NP or GN, can't remember which one)? That executive BN scheme just doesn't do it in my book, and a heritage, pre-BN scheme would be much cooler.

cdub Wrote:
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> Any chance BN-1 and 2 could get repainted back
> into their orignal liverarys (be it NP or GN,
> can't remember which one)? That executive BN
> scheme just doesn't do it in my book, and a
> heritage, pre-BN scheme would be much cooler.



I am sure if you supplied the money and manpower that IRM might consider it.

A similar policy of assigning current road power to specials seems to have prevailed on the UP as well, relegating the E9 trio to only occasional use, even though UP spent tons of money to convert them to "E38-2"s with a single 645 engine and a modern control desk.

NebraskaZephyr Wrote:
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<snip>
> First, let's get something straight: BN-1 and BN-2
> do NOT need to be RESTORED to service. Thanks to
> the work of many dedicated volunteers, they ARE
> fully operational at IRM (and have been that way
> since the day they arrived). They are used when
> needed.
<snip>
> BNSF has asked the Museum to borrow back the
> BN-1/BN-2 a couple of times for use and/or display
> at Galesburg Railroad Days and once for Topeka
> Railroad Days. We have always done all we can to
> honor any request fron BN or BNSF to use our
> equipment. They have been very kind to us over the
> years.
<snip>
> If you'd like to see BN-1, BN-2 and BN-3 (ex-WSMTD
> suburban E9) all in service together, I'd suggest
> coming to IRM for our annual Diesel Weekend on
> July 14-15 or Museum Showcase Weekend Sept. 15-16.
> These are usually the two events when all three
> are fired up and running.
>
> Check out www.irm.org for our full 2007 schedule.
>
> NZ

Thanks NZ!
-Wes

ATSF429 Wrote:
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> cdub Wrote:
> > Any chance BN-1 and 2 could get repainted back
> > into their orignal liverys (be it NP or GN,
> > can't remember which one)? That executive BN
> > scheme just doesn't do it in my book, and a
> > heritage, pre-BN scheme would be much cooler.
>
> I am sure if you supplied the money and manpower
> that IRM might consider it.

Actually, no, we wouldn't.

In their current form, rebuilt into "F-38-2s", they would be historically inaccurate painted as anything except BN executive units. Even if we had a bottomless pit of money, it would be nearly impossible to properly backdate those units to the point where they could accurately wear their original NP colors again.

To be honest, these two units are more historic the way they are: Not only are they the world's first (possibly only, depending on how much work KCS did on their set) F-38-2s, they represent the renaissance of the Executive Streamliner in the 1980s and 90s.

Our membership feels very strongly about not deliberately misrepresenting artifacts. That's why you won't see (for example) an ex-NKP GP7 painted Lackawanna at our place (did I just say that? My freudian slip must be showing!).

Case in point: There was an extended "discussion" during the recent repainting of DRI&NW 121 (SW7) back to her original appearance as CB&Q 9255 whether doing so was appropriate, given her original friction bearing trucks had been replaced with roller bearing by BN.

The paint job went ahead, but on the list of finishing details (besides a "wagon wheel" antenna) is to find journal lids and cellars that can be attached over the roller caps so the locomotive will at least have the proper (for the 1950s) external appearance of friction bearings.

History can be a cruel taskmaster!

NZ

The BN units were probably the most beautiful locomotives I have ever seen. It was always a lucky crew to be ordered to run this train as you were being photographed the whole way. And man did the locomotives always shine.
Thanks to our good friend (Mr. Santa Fe) Rob Krebs, who did not want anything in cream and green from the BN days.
He did away with the F units and then had all the Executive Cars also stripped down which looked really bad after he was done on his BN killing spree.

OliveHeights Wrote:
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> In addition to the rule about not climbing a
> ladder to get in the cab the BN 1-2-3 had small
> 1950's sized fuel tanks. They would have to stop
> for fuel more times than a Dash-9 does. All in
> all I'm sure some folks at BNSF may miss these
> units but just for nostalgia. As for operations
> they are just too old for BNSF's size operation.
> Could you imagine a crew member straining their
> back hoisting a grip into the cab while climbing
> the ladder to get in the BN-1?

The NS isn't exactly a "small potatoes" operation. But this hasn't deterred them, has it?

Not being argumentative--just pointing out that the BNSF is alone of the Big Four, and, most of the Class Is in not having "Executive Passenger Units," whether they be F-Units or E-Units.

I say--if it is fuel capacity--they could have done quite well with three FP45s, which would have at once been "vintage," "unique," and, they'd have managed to project a "modern image" in spite of their qualification as "vintage passenger power."

bnsfengineer Wrote:
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> He did away with the F units and then had all the
> Executive Cars also stripped down which looked
> really bad after he was done on his BN killing
> spree.

More or less a joint BN & ATSF killing spree if you ask me, after all, all this orange and green paint we have everywhere on this "wonderful railroad" of ours came from up north...